ZT 0300 Disappoints...

[PURPLEDC]

Because this is another thread concerning lock failures in ZT knives.

I said my thoughts about Emerson in threads relating to Emerson knives. I believe that certain new Cold Steel knives have better value & live up to the 'overbuilt' category better than certain Emersons and I said as much in a recent thread concerning the two. I also believe that certain new Cold Steel knives have better value & live up to the 'overbuilt' category better than certain ZTs and I am saying as much now. I also happen to think that certain Benchmade knives have better value & live up to the 'overbuilt' category better than ZTs too, and I gave a comparison demonstrating that view.

It is not about specific brands vs others, but specific knives comparable to ZTs that happen to belong to those brands. Of course I don't think every Cold Steel or Benchmade is as strong or as well-built as the ZT models in question, just like I don't think every ZT knife applies to this discussion.

The comparison is not to say that a particular knife is terrible or another particular knife is the best. It's to draw attention to the fact that while all three of the knives in question are marketed, designed & produced as "overbuilt" knives, two of those three have arguably stronger locks that withstand more force (to the point of withstanding actual abuse that no one would consider proper use of a knife) and are more reliably good, while also being lighter weight and less expensive. The purchaser of an 'overbuilt' folding knife is already making compromises in weight, price & size in order to get something that is supposed to be strong. Why compromise more than you have to?

Debris between the lockface and the tang can cause a liner or framelock to fail to lock or to slip as well, and it will do the same thing in an Axis lock, a button lock, a front-opening automatic, etc. All of them are vulnerable to debris.

Unless the axis-lock knives have a greater number of failures than ZT framelocks, the strength, weight & price concerns still apply. As you said, other brands sell knives which fail right out of the box. Why not "bash" those brands equally, as you are telling me to do?

The CTS-XHP knives, from dealers, are still less than 1/2 the price of most comparable ZTs, from dealers.

Why are you so bent on taking marketing literally? Overbuilt is a relative term. And for every zt with a lock issue you have hundreds if not thousands that do not. And you cant compare a cold steel to a zt. Its like saying a casio g shock is a better watch than a rolex because the g shock keeps better time. They are completely different products and they function completely different. And i think the real point here is to NOT bash on ANY brand for the random failures we will hear about as it doesnt represent the majority of the products produced. Trust me if there is anyone who knows its me and that there is a fine line between calling attention to an established and verifiable problem and taking any and every opportunity to take a jab at a company. One thing you are right about and that is under normal conditions you may accidentally hit the spine of your knife. But that isnt what happened here. If it had the persons fingers would most likely been wrapped around the handle fortifying the lock preventing the failure. But i know this is the land of endless what ifs so lets entertain that. What if the persons fingers were not on the lock? Then they wouldnt be in the way to get hurt. But but but what if their fingers were in the way and the lock STILL failed? Then the flipper would have hit their finger preventing an injury though i would argue they were not holding he knife properly. Right now i am looking at buying a new hand gun. But i have no intentions of loading it, cocking it and dropping it on purpose to see if it will unintentionally fire. Nor will i be doing hammer or slide taps. I also dont hood whack my car, or head whack my daughter.

1. Please provide me evidences of my "generalization" with these knives since you're so well versed when it comes to living my life and meeting people (friends or not) that expressed the same issues
2. Using the same "generalization" you used on me, you're a scale maker, you don't go out using customer's knives to see if it has integrity or not before putting on a new scale.
3. Just a hint, I'm not the only one that has had issues with the locks. Not only does my own friends that owns the knife had some issues with it, you can see others elsewhere expressing the concerns as well (Don't worry, I have a few friends that also believes that we abused the knife when we used it correctly)
4. I grew up having a knife in my hand (still have a my first knife that gave me my first scar)
5. I am just as passionate as those that said the knife was "used wrongly". I only happen to stand out simply because I'm one of a few that is willing to stand up and express legit concerns about a design in question.

And lastly, Rival.

I have friend that dont have any problems. Many of them. So many friends with so many zts and not a single issue ever. See? Its very easy to make crap up. And no one hear can validate either of us. So both of our "friends" experiences mean little.

 

[Moosez45]

Since it's become a part of this thread, can someone describe a real world situation that would require striking the spine of a knife, while holding it in an upward cupped hand, with no pressure on the framelock?

I've used a lot of knives in a lot of different ways, over the last 30yrs, that's never come up. Perhaps I am just doing it wrong.

Also, can someone else explain how overstriking a folding knife on the edge of a bridge rail while putting no pressure on the framelock, also constitutes a real world test?

I know a little something about abuse and torture tests, it's one of my "things" I contribute to knife company's marketing departments. I try to make the tests I conduct as "real world" as it gets.

Framelocks require pressure to work properly, been that way since they were created. Any test without a closed grip on a framelock is, well, invalid.

Thanks for the info to come, I look forward to hearing of your experiences.

Moose

 

[marcinek]

Also don't forget the making stuff up part. Every single 200 had to be replaced? The 200 was discontinued because of a problem you had? That is very colorful

Hater. Bottom line is that spine whacking is a debated test, at best. And saying "don't talk about it if you don't lile it," or "of you dont like it youre a troll," "if you don't like it you are going crazy" is just stirring the pot.

But that's all off topic. Said it before and I'll say it again...spine whacking is silly and provides no more valuable information about a knife's perrformance than testing to see if you can fry a quails egg on your knife's blade without it sticking.

 

[grownstar]

Hater. Bottom line is that spine whacking is a debated test, at best. And saying "don't talk about it if you don't lile it," or "of you dont like it youre a troll," "if you don't like it you are going crazy" is just stirring the pot.

But that's all off topic. Said it before and I'll say it again...spine whacking is silly and provides no more valuable information about a knife's perrformance than testing to see if you can fry a quails egg on your knife's blade without it sticking.

Never tried quail egg on my blade before...but I can get a good sear on a ribeye in no time

 

[PURPLEDC]

Well guys. I was trying to find some better tests to validate zt knives and i need some advice. I just performed the IED test on my 0452cf. Basically you strap an improvised explosive to your knife and if the lock fails then the knife is defective. Its been about two hours now and i cant find a single piece of that knife anywhere. Would you guys send the empty box back for replacement? I thought i found a piece of the carbon fiber but it was raccoon poop. But hey i was sold crap so thats fair right? And i dont want to hear that strapping explosives to a folding knife isnt valid.

 

[marcinek]

Never tried quail egg on my blade before...

Then I don't want to hear about your opinions about the quail egg test. Troll.

 

[Scurvy092]

Since it's become a part of this thread, can someone describe a real world situation that would require striking the spine of a knife, while holding it in an upward cupped hand, with no pressure on the framelock?

I've used a lot of knives in a lot of different ways, over the last 30yrs, that's never come up. Perhaps I am just doing it wrong.

Also, can someone else explain how overstriking a folding knife on the edge of a bridge rail while putting no pressure on the framelock, also constitutes a real world test?

I know a little something about abuse and torture tests, it's one of my "things" I contribute to knife company's marketing departments. I try to make the tests I conduct as "real world" as it gets.

Framelocks require pressure to work properly, been that way since they were created. Any test without a closed grip on a framelock is, well, invalid.

Thanks for the info to come, I look forward to hearing of your experiences.

Moose

Winner winner chicken dinner.

 

[Colorodo]

I thought you were suppose to strike the explosive devise with the spine of the knife?💀

 

[PURPLEDC]

I thought you were suppose to strike the explosive devise with the spine of the knife?💀

Come on lets not get carried away here, lol.

 

[Rival1314]

And lastly, Rival.

Everyone else has effectively stripped every one of your talking points of any semblance of validity, so I don't have much else to add. There is no checkmate and I did not assume, I offered actual real world feedback .... And to correct you, yes, I check every knife sent to me for existing issues before working on it. I do this to avoid receiving any blame for any issues a knife may have had prior coming to me. I acknowledge there are some locks with issues, try reading my post its there. The point I was making is that if the OP already admits to abusing the knife in multiple different ways, you cant hold any lock failures on the manufacturer, as you don't know what was done to it. I appreciate your "background" in knives, and I like conversations that pick apart arguments offering both sides of an argument....but you really take it to the extreme. You have multiple posts in the thread that really just stir up un-necessary BS. before you go patting yourself on the back for "putting me in check" (cute gif by the way), don't think your handful of "friends" makes you the one to definitively say they have design flaws and need to fix each one, I have lots of "friends" too but they are not relevant to the conversation you and I are involved in. At least I am offering first hand knowledge based on actual experience and usage over an extended period of time, guess I just gotta trust your "friends" though huh? Your arguments are laughable, your assertions are incorrect, and your arguments are still reaking of bullshit. I do however wish you the best....from one knife lover to another.

respectfully yours
Keeth

 

[PURPLEDC]

Everyone else has effectively stripped every one of your talking points of any semblance of validity, so I don't have much else to add. There is no checkmate and I did not assume, I offered actual real world feedback .... And to correct you, yes, I check every knife sent to me for existing issues before working on it. I do this to avoid receiving any blame for any issues a knife may have had prior coming to me. I acknowledge there are some locks with issues, try reading my post its there. The point I was making is that if the OP already admits to abusing the knife in multiple different ways, you cant hold any lock failures on the manufacturer, as you don't know what was done to it. I appreciate your "background" in knives, and I like conversations that pick apart arguments offering both sides of an argument....but you really take it to the extreme. You have multiple posts in the thread that really just stir up un-necessary BS. before you go patting yourself on the back for "putting me in check" (cute gif by the way), don't think your handful of "friends" makes you the one to definitively say they have design flaws and need to fix each one, I have lots of "friends" too but they are not relevant to the conversation you and I are involved in. At least I am offering first hand knowledge based on actual experience and usage over an extended period of time, guess I just gotta trust your "friends" though huh? Your arguments are laughable, your assertions are incorrect, and your arguments are still reaking of bullshit. I do however wish you the best....from one knife lover to another.

respectfully yours
Keeth

Winner. Close thread.

 

[Insipid Moniker]

If your lock fails from tapping it on your shin that lock is a piece of crap. There are too many knives, including plenty of liner and framelocks and plenty of ZT O200S AND 0300S, that won't fail under the same circumstances not to consider it junk.

That said, a few failures don't really indict a company, as it's very hard to tell what the overall quality is like with such a small sample size.

 

[Paka]

ZT is meant to be "abused" via hard use. But if the locks cannot be heavy duty and disengages too easily, like I and others has already mentioned above, that is not performing as per advertised by ZT. That simply means the lock is not up to par for its task such as my case. I don't see why it is such a hard thing to understand; Zero Tolerance is not a Gentleman knife. It is a line of knives that is designed to stand up to "abuse" and hard use. This is directly from the website: "...premium-quality folding knife built to stand up to heavy-duty use and harsh, real-world conditions."

Yes, it is such a hard thing to understand why people feel compelled to spine whack their knives. Please explain in what real life situation you'd need to do this. Pretty sure there's no situation in which you'd need to spine whack your knife, it's just for people who want to find something to whine about, regardless of the fact its a pointless test..

It's "not up to par for its task such as my case" well, what is your "case" then? Spine whacking a knife until it fails? Have fun man.

 

[PURPLEDC]

If your lock fails from tapping it on your shin that lock is a piece of crap. There are too many knives, including plenty of liner and framelocks and plenty of ZT O200S AND 0300S, that won't fail under the same circumstances not to consider it junk.

That said, a few failures don't really indict a company, as it's very hard to tell what the overall quality is like with such a small sample size.

My problem is we have no idea how many other variables are at play here. Like how old is the knife, has it been modified. Has the lockbar been tweaked. If no to both is the knife a new or used purchase. Was the lockface clean and free of lubricant and above all will this random person with 8 posts even be hear in a month. One trend i see with these kindss of thepreads are they could all be done by one person. Most times i see a thread like this it is from someone with very little time or posts on e forum and after taking a crap they are gone. Hard to take that seriously.

 

[Jens Schuetz]

Well guys. I was trying to find some better tests to validate zt knives and i need some advice. I just performed the IED test on my 0452cf. Basically you strap an improvised explosive to your knife and if the lock fails then the knife is defective. Its been about two hours now and i cant find a single piece of that knife anywhere. Would you guys send the empty box back for replacement? I thought i found a piece of the carbon fiber but it was raccoon poop. But hey i was sold crap so thats fair right? And i dont want to hear that strapping explosives to a folding knife isnt valid.

If you use a defined amount of the same xplosive every time in the same manner the test would be more repeatable and scientific than whacking against a shin.

Safer would be of course dropping a defined weight on the spine at the same distance from the pivot. If it takes only 100g /a chocolate bar dropped from a foot then that's bad and everybody knows how little it is.
Whacking against a shin can be light or hard. Ever felt a Thai boxers shin hitting you thigh?

 

[Insipid Moniker]

My problem is we have no idea how many other variables are at play here. Like how old is the knife, has it been modified. Has the lockbar been tweaked. If no to both is the knife a new or used purchase. Was the lockface clean and free of lubricant and above all will this random person with 8 posts even be hear in a month. One trend i see with these kindss of thepreads are they could all be done by one person. Most times i see a thread like this it is from someone with very little time or posts on e forum and after taking a crap they are gone. Hard to take that seriously.

I agree, but I also stand by my statement. It may well be your own fault that the lock is a piece of crap, but it's still a piece of crap.

 

[Rival1314]

If your lock fails from tapping it on your shin that lock is a piece of crap. There are too many knives, including plenty of liner and framelocks and plenty of ZT O200S AND 0300S, that won't fail under the same circumstances not to consider it junk.

That said, a few failures don't really indict a company, as it's very hard to tell what the overall quality is like with such a small sample size.

I agree with this statement ... well phrased, simple, and straight to the point. We need to stop putting each other on blast and look at what is going on, it is just throwing shade at the actual issue that is being discussed. None of us can make the assertion that the lock failure was the fault of the OP or ZT. To that point we also cannot make the assertion that the design and manufacturing of a model is flawed based on a handful of lock failures mentioned. We can however control what we do with our knives, and when a failure is identified work with the manufacturer to rectify the issue. These actions should be taken before posting about how all knives in that series are flawed, or how poorly designed the knife is based on such a small sample size. And this isn't just a ZT issue, this holds true for all knives and manufacturers production, custom, or mid-tech.

 

[poolhustler]

Perhaps you should get on topic. Take a look at all the other comments. And my goodness, god forbid we point out the FACT that a knife is meant to cut and NOT meant to whack stuff with the spine.

Tsk? Really? Throwing out insults? Calling me a kid? You've got it backwards pal. It is all these kids who are convinced their knife should withstand a stupid spine whack test that is the problem.

We go through this same thread every couple weeks. Look it up. Knives are meant to cut stuff. Marketing is just that. If you want to believe it fine. But you will be disappointed as you are now.



They discontinued the 200 because of your issue with it? They have to repair each and every 200? Okay bud. It is clear you really have no idea what you are talking about now.

LadyEarth just turned to Mulch

 

[cncpro11]

Yes, it is such a hard thing to understand why people feel compelled to spine whack their knives. Please explain in what real life situation you'd need to do this. Pretty sure there's no situation in which you'd need to spine whack your knife, it's just for people who want to find something to whine about, regardless of the fact its a pointless test..

It's "not up to par for its task such as my case" well, what is your "case" then? Spine whacking a knife until it fails? Have fun man.

Happy Easter everyone!

 

[craytab]

Since it's become a part of this thread, can someone describe a real world situation that would require striking the spine of a knife, while holding it in an upward cupped hand, with no pressure on the framelock?

I've used a lot of knives in a lot of different ways, over the last 30yrs, that's never come up. Perhaps I am just doing it wrong.

Also, can someone else explain how overstriking a folding knife on the edge of a bridge rail while putting no pressure on the framelock, also constitutes a real world test?

I know a little something about abuse and torture tests, it's one of my "things" I contribute to knife company's marketing departments. I try to make the tests I conduct as "real world" as it gets.

Framelocks require pressure to work properly, been that way since they were created. Any test without a closed grip on a framelock is, well, invalid.

Thanks for the info to come, I look forward to hearing of your experiences.

Moose

Exactly.

But wait, in this thread we have been asked not to discuss the spine whack test. It is irrelevant. This is about how all ZT 200s (even though the OP is about a 300) need to be replaced plus are discontinued due to design flaw and how possibly since the 200 is obviously flawed (even though this thread is about the 300s) the 300s are flawed as well. Or wait, what is this thread about?

This is a bunch of garbage. OP, send your knife in. Also stop hitting yourself in the shin. Sounds painful.