Ed Fowler You Need to open your eyes

a couple of things, but first; Ed, I wish you a speedy recovery.

Secondly, Ken Onion- well, all I can say is it's no wonder that you are where you are in your profession, vocation, whatever you want to call it. You no doubt deserve it, given your awesome attitude.

Thirdly, well this is an unplanned thirdly; I think that Ken and Ed have something in common; they've both been ripped off either at or on their way to shows! And I'll bet that both came away from their respective experience a notch or two up on the karmic scale.

Fourthly, (this was supposed to be thirdly) for Roger- you, my brother, have not come across many dishonest knives simply because you obviously have no interest in them WHATSOEVER! Your interest lies in the performance of a knife, and I can tell that by the collection of yours you've shared over the years via this forum, plus your experiences building a knife. That's why I like you so much!:)

I'm glad if anyone liked my definition, off the cuff as it was.:D
But just for the record, I have always tuned into shades of grey, avoiding direct contact with white and black.
 
Ruana made an "honest" knife that bore his own identity. I can think of other historic styles as well, you see these knives and you learn to recognize these for the individuality. Randall, Marbles knives, Harry Morseth are others. Ed Fowler too.

It might sound old fashioned to look back at these early makers, but it is where influences are drawn.

-edited- Irish temper.
David
 
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in his article Mr. Fowler wrote:
The maker may feel he must bow to authority and caress the traditions that have been established. The old guard judges the new and the new makers accepting their judgment become a part of the flock. I wonder what our future will be like?
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He also said :
I wonder and feel that maybe it is time for the new to judge the old and themselves as well. We may very well be surprised at their competence and in some way illuminate the way to the future.
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Some want to simply preserve the past , which can be good , but is certainly not for everyone , as those knives do not appeal to everyone. If the new makers do nothing more than caress the traditions that have been established , and do not challenge the old guard , how does the knifemaking world grow ? Do they embrace the past and then become a follower of those traditions ?

I think what Mr. Fowler was really getting at was summed up nicely in
the closing part of his article and was very powerful , and words that do bear repeating (where he was speaking of Paul Burke):
Never did he seek to direct my course to his kind of knife; he encouraged me to be myself.
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2knife , I didn't see anyone attacking Mr. Fowler , this is all just open discussion.

I would like to wish Mr Fowler a speedy recovery from whatever his ailment is that has him under the weather.
 
I don't see anyone attacking Ed either. To think that Ed doesn't care about the new makers coming up you would have to be just blind. I think what he meant by an "honest" knife was the maker being true to himself and his vision. Ed is stubborn and set in his ways, his vision of the perfect knife is clear to him. He's thought out every feature of his knives, and I guess he expects other makers for having a reason for the design features of thier knives. A reason other than, "it looks cool" or "that's the way so and so does it".

I have nothing but respect for someone that can make something out of nothing. The creativity and dedication you makers show is quite amazing. To be a new maker coming up and to be able to absorb everything that's come before and then try to make something new that stands out from the crowd has to be intimidating. Advice like, be true to yourself and think through your designs should not be taken as an affront to your talent.
 
Many of those who come to the world of knifes enter to become a part of a community, each individual sharing in his own way. Some come to give, some to take, some to watch. Most of us care for each other, seek to promote the common good for all and as our diversity expands so shall our portntial for survival. Debate is a good thing, keeps a community alive and ready for the next challenge.
 
Ed, glad to be able to show the knife in question to the group. Ed and I chat at great length about knives and I enjoy those sessions immensely. I'm not sure that the knife in question is perhaps the best example to reflect the gist of what Ed may be professing even though I know it is the knife about which he speaks. The reason being, is that this particular knife was made in the Dan D shop as a gift to AG with a story behind it.

From listening to the story, the gist of it is that during the days of the opening of the Western Frontier of the US and the ensuing "Indian" wars, settlers farms were "attacked" by a Native American band and one of the items most sought after was the "sheep shears". The reason? Quite simple. Two blades. By separating the blades of the shears, natives now had two knives. Were they decorated? Some probably but I'm sure many were simply attached to a handle and used as a knife so even the Native American was creating the "honest" using/hunting knife and also the "art" knife.

Anyone wishing to purchase one of these knives can do so with a call to Dan at 719-657-2545. As I recall the price is $400. My plans to purchase have gone astray due to the past few weeks and I much appreciate Ken Williams sentiments. We collect Native art and jewellry and pottery and this knife would fit perfectly but it will have to wait.
 
Trace Rinaldi said:
Absofreakinlutely Kahuna!!:thumbup: Thats a great post Ken and echo's my thoughts exactly.

I think the division in the knife community has been going on far too long, and this is more of the same. I think the coolest things I see at shows are born out of bringing all schools of thought together. Seeing modern design mixed with old school materials and vice versa, watching makers get together and collaborate whether they be Master Smith, Stock removal "tactical" makers or whatever, and creating something unique.
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Trace that could change and in my opinion the wedge could be driven further?

I remember just after the blade show this year I received a online survey it addressed mainly table holders? at the blade show. They where inquiring as to how I would feel if they made a separate area dedicated to Tactical makers only. Does anyone else remember this survey?

Not sure whatever came from it or if its going to happen?

My response was I did not feel it was such a good idea as it would further separate makers and cause some kind of friction just not sure as to what kind.

I too like the mix at the show its always so much to take in and lots of different folks really there for a common reason...knives and the folks that make and collect them.

I pretty much share Kens thoughts on this subject and felt not only did he get it right but the fact that he chose to speak up as the youngest, newest member of the Knife maker Hall of Fame it speaks volumes of the "Young and new members building today.

Spencer
 
segregating makers- segregating anybody- at shows is a slippery slope.

Why is there an effort to separate the 'weapons' guys from the 'art/tools' guys?
If indeed that's the case.

(I often like to advocate for the devil in order to discover the kernels)

I truly think that segregating makers at shows based on genre is kind of weird and backwards.
Divide, and conquer... Who?

There is quite a movement afoot in the US and the UK, and who knows where else, to curtail certain weapons bearing rights. One wonders at the permutations and strategy of such a campaign.
 
I also would be disappointed to see a show like Blade get separated into different "styles".

Years ago I was never passionate about slipjoints and lockbacks , but while cruising the floor at Blade , I met Rick Nowland , handling his knives and him taking the time to explain to me the working and making of a slipjoint , opened my eyes to an avenue I would have probably never have otherwise explored. Further discussion in the "PIT" with Mr Nowland led to me meeting other slipjoint makers like Tony Bose.

With a show seperated , I would have never ventured into that area , being nervous about asking questions and feeling as though I was out of my element.

With some makers offering up both " tactical " and " traditional " knives , where would they fit ? Perhaps the next step would be forged & stock removal division ( we certainly dont need any further division of that ! ) , and then maybe a seperated forged tactical and stock removal traditional....and then ..... and..... ;)

It doesn't matter the style we like , what matters is we continue our passion for the blade. Take time to introduce someone new to the passion , whether it be thru making , collecting , using or just discussion.

Knives , it may not be what's for dinner , but it sure is what's cutting my dinner. :)

best said by Duane Dwyer during a discussion at a tattoo parlor in Vegas:
" at the end of the day , we are all knifemakers , it's in our blood ".
 
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Spence, that for sure sounds like a step in the wrong direction. Hopefully it doesnt go down like that, and the majority will feel as you did.. In any case, it IS great to see Hall of Famer's, Mastersmiths, and even mere mortals like us having a civil discussion about something we all feel so strongly about. I think at the end of the day we can respect and understand each other better when discussions like this happen, even if in the heat of the debate we dont realize it.

BTW, Ed I hope your feeling better soon!
 
I agree with you Trace. In the end, our commonality of general interest is a good reminder that we are all, merely, mortals. The drama is but fluff, but allows personality to become cult! Dare to be different.

"To thine own self be true"
That maxim I think really applies to the conversation that's going on in this, and other related threads.
 
This is an old thread and I think it is of such value that it needs to be revived and brought to the attention of makers, new and old, and of course to buyers as well.In the 1960s and 1970s (Olden Days) knife makers had only the patterns that Randall's ckustomers had provided to him, Randall had started of course with a Scagel knife (few knew of Scagel) Then in the early 1970s Loveless burst on the knife scene and is still a tremendous influance.

In the 1990s and what there has been of this Century the changes in our knife world have been unbelievable, so many changes, a huge wave if folders inspired by Michael Walker and his liner lock, Tomy Bose and the flood of supurb slipjoint knives by his followers.

Many makers find success following the path laid out by old timers like Randall, Loveless, Walker, Bose and other makers find their own road to knifemakeing. What Ed was saying, I think, was: Don't make my knives, make what you want or like and then test it and find if it is superior. Do this over and over until you are sure of where you are going.

The truth is, our knife world has a flood of new makers, many of them following no one but their own hearts. I hope that you share the joy to be found in this flood of knife ideas.
 
It is rare that I spend a day in my shop that I don't, for even a moment, reflect and thank those who have been the biggest influences in my knife making endeavors, especially as regards to opening my eyes, and teaching me to follow my heart.
Ed Fowler is one of those I thank.
 
Interesting thread. Here's my take on it.

If someone think a knife has soul they are delusional, have a knife they'd like to sell for more, have a knife they would like justification on how much they spent.

An "honest working mans knife" has no meaning. It's romantic nonsense that doesn't hold up to intellectual scrutiny, as has been demonstrated already. Similarly "custom knife" and "dishonest knife" , "whatever knife" has no meaning.

This thread goes round-round because few have realized you can't put labels like the above on knives and somehow still make sense of it.
 
An "honest working mans knife" has no meaning.
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Of course that would be your opinion , to others it does have a meaning. The more I think about what Ed calls a An "honest working mans knife" , the more it does make sense.

I see so many pictures of knives posted , that you just know will never see use , that is sad.

"Honest working mans knife" , to me means:
a knife you aren't afraid to use ,
a knife that can be used functionally for long periods of time without discomfort ,
a knife that doesn't rely on fancy materials or embellishments , instead stands on its own in it's simplicity.
 
John T Wylie Jr said:
Of course that would be your opinion , to others it does have a meaning. The more I think about what Ed calls a An "honest working mans knife" , the more it does make sense.

I see so many pictures of knives posted , that you just know will never see use , that is sad.

"Honest working mans knife" , to me means:
a knife you aren't afraid to use ,
a knife that can be used functionally for long periods of time without discomfort ,
a knife that doesn't rely on fancy materials or embellishments , instead stands on its own in it's simplicity.
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So do fancy materials and embellishment make a knife "dishonest"?

Roger
 
a knife that is true to itself is always honest:)
 
RogerP said:
So do fancy materials and embellishment make a knife "dishonest"?

Roger
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no , that just takes it out of the " working " part of the equation in most cases , just my opinion.

Face it , most knives that are all dressed up , hardly ever see the light of day , let alone use.
 
I think threads like this can go round and round because it's about likes, wants and appreciation. I believe it's delusional to thinks we 'need' custom and handmade knives. The maker did something of value if someone sees more than nicely arranged materials.

Take care, Craig
 
RogerP said:
So do fancy materials and embellishment make a knife "dishonest"?

Roger
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Yes...........next question:D I'll throw a little more gasoline on the fire. If you have to worry about significantly diminishing the value of a knife if you use it for tasks for which it was designed, then I say you do not have an "honest working man's knife":eek:
 
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