My experience with Liu Kang

[neuron]

liu kang makes sales not on feedback (his is great) or reputation (his is good), or even price (his are high). he makes sales on superior inventory and customer service. i once wanted one of his busse offerings and he sent me a dozen photos of the knife from different angles. great service. he wouldn't really negotiate price and i eventually got a similar (though not my perfect) knife for a few hundred less. but when it comes to Busses, which are difficult to get, you won't find a seller with more inventory on the internet. he takes a lot of risk owning so many Busses and this large inventory is rewarded by buyers who want a particular knife in a marketplace where such knives are often difficult if not impossible to come by. pay liu kang a bit of a mark up and you can forgo searching months for that perfect Busse. So he has a place as a seller here, and one dispute over $10 and not the quality of the product should not be considered a real blemish on his record.

I don't have any beef with the rest of your post -- I disagree with it, but you're entitled to your opinion -- but the part in bold is highly dubious. In fact, it's pretty much undermined by the rest of your post about how high demand for Busses is and how high of a markup people are willing to pay for them. They're highly liquid assets, have very little probability of losing value, and in fact tend to increase significantly in value due to scarcity and high demand. That's pretty much the opposite of a risky asset.

 

[Planterz]

liu kang makes sales not on feedback (his is great) or reputation (his is good), or even price (his are high). he makes sales on superior inventory and customer service. i once wanted one of his busse offerings and he sent me a dozen photos of the knife from different angles. great service. he wouldn't really negotiate price and i eventually got a similar (though not my perfect) knife for a few hundred less. but when it comes to Busses, which are difficult to get, you won't find a seller with more inventory on the internet. he takes a lot of risk owning so many Busses and this large inventory is rewarded by buyers who want a particular knife in a marketplace where such knives are often difficult if not impossible to come by. pay liu kang a bit of a mark up and you can forgo searching months for that perfect Busse. So he has a place as a seller here, and one dispute over $10 and not the quality of the product should not be considered a real blemish on his record.

He has so many because he buys them all up (and not just Busses). He goes to knife shows and buys up everything he can. He brings friends along so he can increase his odds on lotteries, which he does only so he can flip them for a profit. Everybody else apparently can go suck it. LK's the kind of guy who'd buy all the bottled water during a natural disaster then resell it at a mark-up. What he does isn't illegal, nor is it against the terms of BFC (not at this time, anyway). But it's not going to win him many fans. It shows that the only care he actually gives for this community is how much money he can bilk it for, and that's his "place as a seller here".

 

[awh]

Hey I'm not disagreeing with you guys. I have been pissed off more than once with this guy for his mark ups and for buying up all the inventory. But what can you do? It's a free world. I don't think we should beat him up over a $10 insurance charge. He would have paid for the knife if it was lost and I don't think anyone thinks otherwise. In real world terms this is more valuable then USPS insurance which can be a bitch to collect on. Liu Kang was partially created by Busse marketing. Perhaps bladeforums is about a group of people with common interests (aka friends) and Liu Kang is about doing business? It rubs people the wrong way, but it is what it is.

 

[risen]

...at this time, LK has the permission of the site owner, at Jerry Busse's request, to sell his crap in the Busse for sale forum. ...

Interesting.

 

[risen]

...What he does isn't illegal, nor is it against the terms of BFC (not at this time, anyway). ...

Actually, as I've already stated, I believe the practice of charging for insurance and, then, intentionally not securing that insurance is illegal. And, if it's proven to be illegal, and that crime is being committed on this forum, *that* may be against the terms of BFC. If it's not, maybe it should be, humbly speaking of course.

 

[dericdesmond]

^ nah, not that big a deal man. I get ya but really, lets all relax and keep it cival. Id like to keep the thread open. Lets tryand focuse on 2 things, dd n lk.
Cheers

 

[GWashington1732]

I don't understand how there can be any debate over this at all. The man deliberately paid extra money for, and asked for, insurance on the package. It's generally accepted that the buyer is responsible for sending payment in a timely manner, and that the seller is responsible for getting the knife to the buyer in a timely manner or to refund the money should something happen, read past threads where knives were lost in the mail if you don't believe me. Why would he pay extra to enforce this rule? He wouldn't, it's already policy, he obviously wanted the service of insurance, offered through USPS, to be included or he would not have paid extra. If there was a mistake made, he should have been offered the extra money back.

Who cares that he was offered a full refund? That's not what he wanted, all he wanted was the money that was swindled from him, either by dishonesty or ignorance. If someone short changes me at the register, I don't want to return the item for a refund, I just want the correct amount of change that I'm due.

Who cares if it's not that much money to get upset over? It's not about the money, it's the principle of the matter. If I go to a fast food place at 2am and they give me a cheeseburger with mayonnaise on it, after I ask them not to, I'll turn around and go back to that fast food restaurant, at 2am, and make them fix it. Do I care about the 3.00 I spent on those burgers? No. Will I starve if I don't get to eat those burgers because of that nasty rotten egg slop sauce they've got all over them? Again no. I just don't like it when, for whatever reason, I don't get what I paid for.

The problem is not about the $11, it's about questionable morality and outright dishonesty. Notice, that every time LK comes in here, it's to divert blame or attention to someone or something else; when I see that, I see the tell tale signs of someone who selectively answers questions and only sees the parts that he can use to make everyone else look somewhere else or to make himself into the victim. All this issue and his response to it shows is that he lacks integrity, a trait that I find important.

 

[Rhesus Feces]

Well said, George, well said.

 

[jujigatame]

How anyone buys into the idea of LK's "self insuring" as a legit stand in for actually getting insurance via the PO is beyond me. We can make all the analogies and comparisons we want but if the knife had been lost or wrecked in an uninsured shipment it ultimately would have been the buyer's story versus the seller's story, an I said/you said. The fact that he wants to use the claim he would have paid out in that event as a backdoor means to excuse his not following the buyer's instructions and then also refusing a simple request to refund a small amount of money is so ridiculous I have a hard time accepting it ever got put to paper, or email as the case may be.

For some people the fact that this transaction did not reach the state of having a lost/damaged knife is sufficient to let what happened slide, the "you got your knife so stop complaining" argument. I'd ask those folks to consider the idea that LK would potentially put himself in the position of having to refund $700+ because of not spending $11 on insurance. Is that a gamble you want someone to take with your money and the knife you're purchasing with it? You can tell me there are no sure things, it's all a gamble at some level and I suppose I'd agree with you. However, that doesn't preclude some things from being much riskier than others and I feel LK has shown just from this one situation he is willing to play fast and loose with his customers with no safety net other than an ex post facto promise of compensation that can't be substantiated to any meaningful degree.

 

[Karda]

The problem is not about the $11, it's about questionable morality and outright dishonesty. Notice, that every time LK comes in here, it's to divert blame or attention to someone or something else; when I see that, I see the tell tale signs of someone who selectively answers questions and only sees the parts that he can use to make everyone else look somewhere else or to make himself into the victim. All this issue and his response to it shows is that he lacks integrity, a trait that I find important.

And this is the crux of the whole matter, not only of the $11.....but of how Liu Kang conducts his business in general.
Outright lies, deciet and obfuscation are no way to conduct a business. As anyone can see here now, these type of tactics will maximize profits in the short term, but will obviously catch up to you in the long term and hurt your bottom line, especially when using a forum format where your words/deeds/deals are recorded for posterity, not to mention the internet, where your integrity, or lack thereof, can be readily searched and seen.
Anyone can claim to be anything on the internet or in a forum. Claiming it doesnt make it so. It has to be proven. Whether you claim to have the biggest/best collection.....right down to your word on how you conduct youself and your business must be backed by proper deeds and honest actions, not by claims of what you are and will do/have done. All must be readily apparent and easily found. If you choose to conduct business in a less than forthright and honest manner, you only have yourself to blame when your practices are brought to light and your integrity questioned. Honest is as Honest does.
How Mr. Kang cannot understand the simple concepts of honesty, integrity and principles is beyond many here, besides me. His track record and participation in these forum speaks volumes. If one were to go by this forum alone, looking objectively, one could see that he seems to come off as more of a parasite, than purveyor for the good of the community, as he so claims.

 

[LMT66]

Something else to consider when a $700 item is shipped without insurance or Signature Confirmation. It can be left on a doorstep, in a common hallway or building vestibule or porch without a signature but show as delivered. Then what?

If anyone buys a blade from LK, you'd be wise to ask him to photograph the receipt which shows the Signature Confirmation tag number, insurance tag number with the amount of insurance paid for. I'm not sure how it works if you buy postage online but I'm sure all the information is readily available.

Delivery Confirmation requires no signature.
Signature Confirmation requires the signature of an adult resident at the address.
Both the above services can be used to track the package. Signature Confirmation shows who signed for it.

You can also restrict delivery to the buyer who will need to show ID.

Items $200 and above get a blue insurance tag. This tell the Postman he needs a signature to deliver it.
Items under $200 use a gray tag and although it is insured, he doesn't need a signature to deliver.

If you buy something that is priceless to you but is under $200, require the seller to insure and purchase Signature Confirmation so it isn't left on a porch.

Bladeforums should require any and all shipments by sellers to be insured for the purchase price. Some folks still tell you it's extra and optional and do ship very expensive blades uninsured.
No deal on BF is complete until both parties are happy. If you (the seller) ship a knife and it is lost in the mail or an empty box arrives, and you didn't purchase insurance, it's up to you to make things right with the buyer by refunding his money in full.

And some tips for packing big blades.

And small.

 

[M67]

Something else to consider when a $700 item is shipped without insurance or Signature Confirmation. It can be left on a doorstep, in a common hallway or building vestibule or porch without a signature but show as delivered. Then what?

If anyone buys a blade from LK, you'd be wise to ask him to photograph the receipt which shows the Signature Confirmation tag number, insurance tag number with the amount of insurance paid for. I'm not sure how it works if you buy postage online but I'm sure all the information is readily available.

Anything shipped USPS and insured over $200 automatically comes with a signature confirmation, but in this case there was no insurance so no one had to sign for a $720 knife.

There's another consequence of shipping an uninsured knife that didn't cross my mind until now.

If the knife did get delivered, and some one stole it off the doorstep, would LK still cover the loss or claim that it got delivered?

 

[LMT66]

Anything shipped USPS and insured over $200 automatically comes with a signature confirmation, but in this case there was no insurance so no one had to sign for a $720 knife.

There's another consequence of shipping an uninsured knife that didn't cross my mind until now.

If the knife did get delivered, and some one stole it off the doorstep, would LK still cover the loss or claim that it got delivered?

No automatic Signature Confirmation with insurance over $200. Just a signature required to deliver. You can't see who signed for it or when it was delivered unless you buy "Signature Confirmation" along with insurance.

 

[M67]

No automatic Signature Confirmation with insurance over $200. Just a signature required to deliver. You can't see who signed for it or when it was delivered unless you buy "Signature Confirmation" along with insurance.

Damn USPS, they tell you 1 thing and it's wrong; or they don't tell all the facts. Anyway I'll have to keep that in mind. Thanks for that bit of info.

But still, at least someone would have to sign for it so it could be delivered instead of finding it lying on a porch.

 

[Windex_]

And this is the crux of the whole matter, not only of the $11.....but of how Liu Kang conducts his business in general.
Outright lies, deciet and obfuscation are no way to conduct a business. As anyone can see here now, these type of tactics will maximize profits in the short term, but will obviously catch up to you in the long term and hurt your bottom line, especially when using a forum format where your words/deeds/deals are recorded for posterity, not to mention the internet, where your integrity, or lack thereof, can be readily searched and seen.
Anyone can claim to be anything on the internet or in a forum. Claiming it doesnt make it so. It has to be proven. Whether you claim to have the biggest/best collection.....right down to your word on how you conduct youself and your business must be backed by proper deeds and honest actions, not by claims of what you are and will do/have done. All must be readily apparent and easily found. If you choose to conduct business in a less than forthright and honest manner, you only have yourself to blame when your practices are brought to light and your integrity questioned. Honest is as Honest does.
How Mr. Kang cannot understand the simple concepts of honesty, integrity and principles is beyond many here, besides me. His track record and participation in these forum speaks volumes. If one were to go by this forum alone, looking objectively, one could see that he seems to come off as more of a parasite, than purveyor for the good of the community, as he so claims.

 

[LMT66]

Ask for a photo of the receipt along with both the Sig & Ins tags and ask that any seller retain these until you tell them you recieved it in good order.

My receipt for blade I sold off and shipped out. You can see what services I paid for and how much insurance I bought.

 

[jill jackson]

Looking at LK's threads where he has other brands for sale, I see he definitely pushes the price beyond what I see them bringing even on eBay. I don't see how he sells them at all. (I don't know anything about Busse, but I do know the price on discontinued Spyderco and some others)

 

[LMT66]

Looking at LK's threads where he has other brands for sale, I see he definitely pushes the price beyond what I see them bringing even on eBay. I don't see how he sells them at all. (I don't know anything about Busse, but I do know the price on discontinued Spyderco and some others)

Because he ships worldwide and many don't. But be warned, according to his thread:
I am not responsible for international shipments even though I have never had any problems.

 

[Liu Kang]

He has so many because he buys them all up (and not just Busses). He goes to knife shows and buys up everything he can. He brings friends along so he can increase his odds on lotteries, which he does only so he can flip them for a profit. Everybody else apparently can go suck it. LK's the kind of guy who'd buy all the bottled water during a natural disaster then resell it at a mark-up. What he does isn't illegal, nor is it against the terms of BFC (not at this time, anyway). But it's not going to win him many fans. It shows that the only care he actually gives for this community is how much money he can bilk it for, and that's his "place as a seller here".

You obviously do not know anything about knife lottery. Go and ask any knife maker that holds a knife lottery and ask them if they realize that more then half of the people that are in the lottery are with the intent of reselling the knife with the intent on making a profit and see what they say back to you. Try it. I can provide you with a list of makers if you wish.
Where do you think knife dealers get custom knives that nobody is allowed to order? Knife makers that hold auctions won't make or sell those custom knives even dealers and so that why there is the auction. That's just the way it is weather you like it or not.

Because he ships worldwide and many don't. But be warned, according to his thread:
I am not responsible for international shipments even though I have never had any problems.

Ok, show me any person that guarantees worldwide shipping? You don't do it and never have so what do you know about international shipping?

No automatic Signature Confirmation with insurance over $200. Just a signature required to deliver. You can't see who signed for it or when it was delivered unless you buy "Signature Confirmation" along with insurance.

Again you are wrong, over $300 they will ask for a signature. And if the item is lost and goes to court, USPS will have to provide a signed copy of acceptance or proof of delivery. And not everyone here is unemployed and sitting home to wait for a package, some people have actual jobs so if you required a signature or heavily insure the package, then, they are required to be there when the package is delivered. This can be a problem since not everyone can be home so many ask for a simple delivery confirmation number. So the option of getting insurance is up to the buyer. I have never lost any packages that was shipped within the 48 states.

As for the $11, I did not give that back because I changed my mind about selling the knife to Eric and he knows this. I asked for the knife back and he refused and we have not gotten along since then. I did not want to do business with him and simply wanted my knife back so I was willing to pay for every penny he spent along with his cost for USPS money order and shipment of the knife back to me but he refused. Everyone keeps saying a deal is not complete until both party is happy, well I wasn't happy and wanted my knife back!

 

[UDDwaine]

I wasn't happy and wanted my knife back!

You sound like a kid in a playground yelling "I'm taking my ball and going home" because he didn't get his way, not like what a respectable dealer should sound like.