Bad Survive! Deserves A Permanent Post In The Hall Of Shame

Hurrul said:
I don't conflate "haters" with past customers who have been robbed of the product they payed for. They are distinct groups in my eyes and it's clear in my post who I was referring to.

You and I don't know what consequences that resolving their dishonor would have; who would be satisfied or not, or, how renewed trust might light a fire in someones wallet.
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The social media age has taught us that forgiveness is rare. It’s not good enough to make amends. People wanna watch you burn.
 
Infi-del said:
That’s the difference between an “is” and an “ought”. Should they? Sure. It’s not nice to take people’s money and not deliver the product. But… they could always just decide not to since it isn’t going to repair the damage done to their current reputation… and just move forward and wait for everyone to forget about that dark chapter. And eventually most people will. There’d be more motivation to make amends if there was some salvation at the end of that tunnel. Why turn yourself in tonight if you’re going to be executed at dawn?
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No, it's ILLEGAL to take people's money and not deliver a product.

The fact that you advocate this behavior speaks volumes about you.
 
Infi-del said:
The social media age has taught us that forgiveness is rare. It’s not good enough to make amends. People wanna watch you burn.
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It's really simple: the honorable course of action is not meant to appease a faceless internet mob, social media, or those hiding behind a computer screen "watching you burn."

It's for the individuals that have been lied to and stolen from. They are the only ones that matter; not internet strangers, but customers.

It's the only way they will ever clean up their sullied reputation.
 
Infi-del said:
What I'm asking is what would it take? Where all was forgiven and everyone was happy and SK! is in everyone's good graces again.
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What would it take... for either Guy or Ellie to grow a set of balls and for once to admit they created this mess instead of blaming it on suppliers. I honestly can't remember a single post from either where they've accepted any kind of responsibility for this fiasco, instead it always supplier issues and excuses.

SURVIVE! SURVIVE! last seen March 16, 2017
SURVIVE! Ellie SURVIVE! Ellie last seen June 26, 2020

SURVIVE! forum closed on August 4, 2018

You'll notice the time frame from Guy's last seen and their forum being closed, roughly a year and a half. I'm paraphrasing but I believes Ellie's excuse for Guy's lack of participation was he couldn't handle all the drama and it was giving him headaches... hard to sharpen knives with a self induced migraine I guess :rolleyes:

Notice Ellie's last seen but her last post quoted below is from August 7, 2018... 3 days after their forum was closed she's a ghost... you'll notice the bold.
SURVIVE! Ellie said:
As I've mentioned before, we answer every email and every phone call from folks who contact us. That is the best way to get information about your specific order. When I try to address issues in threads like this there is never going to be a "right" answer other than "everything is shipped." Since I can't wish knives into existence, it does take time to make them. We know we are behind. You all know we are behind. It took some time to get things lined up and to get settled in down in Meridian, but if you look on our subforum, instagram, or happen to be part of the SK group on facebook, or have read the newsletter, you can see that people have been getting their knives. Our backlog had been on the decline since I started tracking it every week, but with the increase in output lately it is definitely speeding up that decline. Having an S!K subforum or not doesn't change our plan to keep delivering orders as quickly as possible.

I will still be checking in to the forums and am happy to interact with our customers here. However, I have no interest in being a whipping post for the many folks who are just looking to poke the hornet's nest, which is what a lot of this thread is.
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Hurrul said:
It's really simple: the honorable course of action is not meant to appease a faceless internet mob, social media, or those hiding behind a computer screen "watching you burn."

It's for the individuals that have been lied to and stolen from. They are the only ones that matter; not internet strangers, but customers.

It's the only way they will ever clean up their sullied reputation.
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Doesn’t seem to be stoping them from selling knives.
 
Note: A whipping post doesn’t get whipped. The person getting whipped is tethered to the post so said person cannot escape the whipping.
 
Boru13 said:
You should be glad to be here, I should have banned you with your very first post in this thread… remember.

“Been quiet around here. Probably time for Survive Fan-Boy post to get the blood boiling.”

I’m not likely to make that mistake again :cool:
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Jesus dude, I don't have any skin in this game and will never buy a Survive! knife because I think they're a flat out bad business with shady (at best) practices. That being said, just having read some snippets out of this thread spanning almost a year back, I think you need to chill out a bit. It seems as if people need to tip toe around moderators here if expressing any opinions that the moderators don't agree with. How is that acceptable behavior? Shouldn't moderators simply impartially moderate discussions? Getting into arguments with your community and empty threats of bans for people standing up for themselves hardly seems like good practice. It seems as if mods and staff members are free to throw accusations and even insults at people they don't agree with, all the while threatening bans for comments that were clearly self aware jokes. I don't even see anyone seriously defending Survive! here, just defending themselves from the flood of accusations from people who seemingly enjoy the drama of it all. I have to agree with Infidel here (and I flat out disagree with some of his sentiments too), but it really does seem like a hate circle jerk than a real discussion, and its worse that it's seemingly spurred on by staff members.
 
kafolarbear said:
Jesus dude, I don't have any skin in this game and will never buy a Survive! knife because I think they're a flat out bad business with shady (at best) practices. That being said, just having read some snippets out of this thread spanning almost a year back, I think you need to chill out a bit. It seems as if people need to tip toe around moderators here if expressing any opinions that the moderators don't agree with. How is that acceptable behavior? Shouldn't moderators simply impartially moderate discussions? Getting into arguments with your community and empty threats of bans for people standing up for themselves hardly seems like good practice. It seems as if mods and staff members are free to throw accusations and even insults at people they don't agree with, all the while threatening bans for comments that were clearly self aware jokes. I don't even see anyone seriously defending Survive! here, just defending themselves from the flood of accusations from people who seemingly enjoy the drama of it all. I have to agree with Infidel here (and I flat out disagree with some of his sentiments too), but it really does seem like a hate circle jerk than a real discussion, and its worse that it's seemingly spurred on by staff members.
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How about because maybe this particular moderator’s position on the matter is more than just an opinion? The business’s sub forum here was closed down - do you think that was just because of the OPINION of one moderator and a handful of malcontents? There’s a lot of bad blood leading up to this point, and the business in question has only continued to perpetuate it over the years rather than doing anything to remedy it. It’s not just bad behavior, it’s outright fraud, but people see fit to expend a lot if energy trivializing it because it didn’t happen to them. Except for the one guy who it DID happen to, and he still thinks it’s ok.
 
Infi-del said:
So what? Why bother if most of the same people are still gonna hate you and have it out for you? Again, their demand always exceeds their supply… honor isn’t gonna make them any extra money.
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How does that phrase go again? “The true test of a man's character is what he does when no one is watching.” I think that's how it goes. It doesn't surprise me that a scumbag felon like Guy wouldn't have the slightest idea about any of that, though.
 
topfuel6 said:
Note: A whipping post doesn’t get whipped. The person getting whipped is tethered to the post so said person cannot escape the whipping.
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How effective is the whipping post or the whipping if the one being whipped is counting their money on the other side not really feeling the sting.
 
tokerblue said:
I don't think you'll ever make everyone happy. People are still mad at Ruger for the things that Bill Sr. said and he died two decades ago. The Ruger of today isn't the Ruger of old. So a lot of customers have forgiven them.

But you would think that at some point, Survive would want to clear their entire backlog. It's not like the knives from 2015 are claymores made of some mythical steel that is no longer made. Which is why it's so puzzling that they wouldn't simply ship out all older orders first. Then they would be at the point where current production knives wouldn't take 5 years to fulfill. But I don't know if they'll ever get to that point due to their poor management.
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Well..."h'acksually", since they no longer offer Delta 3V, then technically all those knives that were ordered in 3V are of a mythical steel no longer made. Plus, my god, how passive and weak would someone have to be in order to be happy to get a knife five, six years later* that wasn't what they ordered, because it's just another cost cutting measure from Guy, who has to make sure he can pay his personal bills?

I mean, with the fact that their knives are just plain-jane 3V, there are any number of production knives that are offered in 3V that are A. cheaper, B. readily available, and the worst: C. Just as good or even much better than those mediocre kit knives made of parts that other people made, that Guy just bolts together and sells people.

At this juncture, I don't know why anyone would buy a S?K knife for any reason.




* After you've seen a TON of other people get knives that were ordered years after your order
 
Infi-del said:
I’m not advocating for anything. I’m just stating they have no good reason to try and make good with people that already hate them and won’t forgive them anyway if they did.
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Then you'd agree that an immediate refund would be/would have been the right thing to do, correct?

Infi-del said:
I’ve never said “I don’t like the existence of this thread”. I said I think it’s funny. You’re trying assign a motive. And I’m not playing your game.
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Please stop with this weak misdirection. You used the most played out move on the internet, where you came into a thread that you don't like, and then attempted to condescendingly shame people into stopping posting in it. That's basic "Internet smoothbrain censorship" Playbook Move #1.
 
Boru13 said:
You should be glad to be here, I should have banned you with your very first post in this thread… remember.

“Been quiet around here. Probably time for Survive Fan-Boy post to get the blood boiling.”

I’m not likely to make that mistake again :cool:
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kafolarbear said:
Jesus dude, I don't have any skin in this game and will never buy a Survive! knife because I think they're a flat out bad business with shady (at best) practices. That being said, just having read some snippets out of this thread spanning almost a year back, I think you need to chill out a bit. It seems as if people need to tip toe around moderators here if expressing any opinions that the moderators don't agree with. How is that acceptable behavior? Shouldn't moderators simply impartially moderate discussions? Getting into arguments with your community and empty threats of bans for people standing up for themselves hardly seems like good practice. It seems as if mods and staff members are free to throw accusations and even insults at people they don't agree with, all the while threatening bans for comments that were clearly self aware jokes. I don't even see anyone seriously defending Survive! here, just defending themselves from the flood of accusations from people who seemingly enjoy the drama of it all. I have to agree with Infidel here (and I flat out disagree with some of his sentiments too), but it really does seem like a hate circle jerk than a real discussion, and its worse that it's seemingly spurred on by staff members.
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Apparently it’s about getting SK! To conduct themselves with honor. Or so I’m told.
 
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Infi-del said:
Doesn’t seem to be stoping them from selling knives.
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That's all you've got? Can't address the reality of who has been actually wronged in this situation (hint: it's not Guy or Ellie)?

Clearly, you know how to keep your word, judging by your feedback score here on BF...so my words about keeping your word and doing right by others, should not be difficult to understand. But, you willfully choose to ignore the obvious in your responses to me.

Your hollow defense of a company that would abandon their responsibility to you in a heart beat is quite ironic.
 
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