Bad Survive! Deserves A Permanent Post In The Hall Of Shame

Nathan the Machinist said:
The Delta protocol was not and has never been about improving corrosion resistance. That's a happy side effect.

If you're getting a higher hardness with a secondary hardening hump you might be doing something wrong.

If you're having to temper down at 350 to get the hardness you're looking for, you might be doing something wrong.

The intent of the low temperature tweaks is to avoid the softer weaker martensite and mixed microstructure of the secondary hardening hump but it comes at the risk of stabilized retained austinite. Material condition going into heat treat, quench rate, quench depth and timing of cryo steps is critical and some of it is counterintuitive.


None of this is secret and none of this is special news. But, for sure, a manufacturer that is quenching an unground blank might struggle to reach the quench rate they need at the edge, and someone who is grinding hard and sharpening dry could easily run into issues overheating the edge. But there is more to the Delta protocol than this. And I'm not going to explain it to you.

But if you were going to claim that "the Delta protocol is heat treat marketing spin on a pretty typical heat treat", I'm going to call you full of shit because you don't know what you're talking about. You have not honestly and objectively evaluated it. You might not even be able to. You're full of it.

We are the current national and world bladesport cutting champions, and we did it with our own production blades. You don't achieve that without really having your act together. We are the best in the world at what we do and that's no joke. And I don't appreciate you suggesting otherwise when I'm quite certain you don't know what you're talking about here.
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The Man has spoken.

Gentleman who runs a reputable company that's well known and loved here, who has put virtually undefeatable fixed blades in the hands of many = 1,015,534 (approx.)

Dude with 183 posts whose username is a reference to a knife company no one has ever heard of = 0
 
theknifejunky said:

In Stock: GSO-5.1 Factory 2nds​


The assembly bench has been getting a lot of use lately! In addition to yesterday's announcement we also have a small batch of GSO-5.1 Factory 2nds built. Those are in stock and will ship within the next few days.


LOL! Every thime same move. They will actualy sell this batch as factory seconds, and none of people who preordered knife will get one.
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Guy must have had some bills to pay!
 
marrenmiller said:
Some corrections to some posts on this thread. Not a defense of S!K, which I wrote about in this very thread and do not recommend buying from.

Carothers also uses Peters for their heat treatment. It's not very practical for smaller makers to do their own heat treatments, so most contract the job out.

The Delta protocol is carried out for CPK by their contractor, and was for Survive as well until Survive decided to go back to the conventional secondary hardening heat treatment protocol.

Guy and Nathan Carothers both worked on developing the Delta 3V protocol, which was why Survive was using it originally (and is also why IMO it's so absurd that Survive stopped using it in favor of something worse).
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From my limited understanding, Nathan was the man mostly behind the R&D (he is a metallurgist) while guy was more behind field testing and feedback
 
now granny is in the hospital. with all respect, but customers dont care about personal problems of manufacturers. we all have personal problems.
 
The Boy Who Cried Wolf.

One of Aesop's Fables- I was going to say how the human experience is timeless. I didn't realize how much so- Aesop, a slave and storyteller who lived in ancient Greece between 620 and 564 BCE
 
theknifejunky said:
now granny is in the hospital. with all respect, but customers dont care about personal problems of manufacturers. we all have personal problems.
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What do you expect man? Ol Guy isn't a professional, he's a crook! I've been reading up on him and the more I learn the more I kick myself in the ass for giving him my business. People like him don't deserve support, they need to be shut down!
 
gscreely said:
I have always done a version of Delta HT on 3V and Cruwear. I was not willing to sacrifice a significant level of corrosion resistance for a modest hardness bump. The strange thing with those steels is the data sheets all called for the high temp temper (secondary hardening), I checked with a metallurgist friend (many of you know) and he told me it was totally not necessary. I temper those steels around 350 and they are great. Delta is just a marketing spin on a pretty typical HT protocol.
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Sorry, but I don't agree with you at all. The fellas over at Carothers put their money where their mouth is. I have yet to own one of their fine blades, but I have seen them in action and the results speak for themselves. Their 3V Knives are tough as hell! They didn't just flash a winning smile and make a big claim, they proved it through grueling test published all over the web, and on top of that many of their customers that own their knives have abused them and come to the same conclusion, their Delta 3V Protocol is no fucking joke! Sorry for going off topic folks.
 
Bluegrass Survival Bluegrass Survival I don't think T theknifejunky was so much taking a stab at Carothers just stating a design aspect they dislike about them it isn't a knock against them morals or their business practice. I dislike plenty of knife designs that others may love it doesn't mean I don't respect the knife and the engineering. I dislike thumb studs on my folding knives so I have maybe 2 with them and I avoid buying Chinese knives but I can understand and respect much of the progress that Chinese makers have made.

Also your wrong about Guy he is a professional... a professional crook.
 
PirateSeulb said:
Bluegrass Survival Bluegrass Survival I don't think T theknifejunky was so much taking a stab at Carothers just stating a design aspect they dislike about them it isn't a knock against them morals or their business practice. I dislike plenty of knife designs that others may love it doesn't mean I don't respect the knife and the engineering. I dislike thumb studs on my folding knives so I have maybe 2 with them and I avoid buying Chinese knives but I can understand and respect much of the progress that Chinese makers have made.

Also your wrong about Guy he is a professional... a professional crook.
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No argument there, he is a professional crook!
 
I'm sorry to say that I too fell victim to these scam artists. I was directed here from a comment in the Dutch Bushcraft Knives youtube video where they do a review of the GSO 5.1. Given that I will most likely never see my knife, what's the best alternative to a knife like that?
 
FireDriller said:
I'm sorry to say that I too fell victim to these scam artists. I was directed here from a comment in the Dutch Bushcraft Knives youtube video where they do a review of the GSO 5.1. Given that I will most likely never see my knife, what's the best alternative to a knife like that?
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I started this exact thread for you.

The Survive! Knife Alternatives Thread. All suggestions WELCOME!

Let's give neophytes alternatives to the mess that is attempting to purchases a Survive! Knife in anything that approaches "real time". I'll edit a list in this OP. See below it's started. By real time I mean prior to meeting someone, falling in love, getting married, having some kids, raising...
www.bladeforums.com www.bladeforums.com
 
FireDriller said:
I'm sorry to say that I too fell victim to these scam artists. I was directed here from a comment in the Dutch Bushcraft Knives youtube video where they do a review of the GSO 5.1. Given that I will most likely never see my knife, what's the best alternative to a knife like that?
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CPK is probably the most well respected when it comes to indestructible hard use knives with the perfectly tweaked heat treat. I’d also implore your to check out other custom makers here or on the other bushcraft forum for amazing quality done right and by hand.
 
Antonymous said:
CPK is probably the most well respected when it comes to indestructible hard use knives with the perfectly tweaked heat treat. I’d also implore your to check out other custom makers here or on the other bushcraft forum for amazing quality done right and by hand.
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or Busse.
 
New update from Guy and a new low. Using a death in the family to keep the scam alive.

I lost my father and was distraught. You know what helped? Getting back to work and staying busy.

They will milk this for a month and then have some new problem that is completely out of their control.

How do the people commenting positively not see through the act?
 
rmc001 said:
New update from Guy and a new low. Using a death in the family to keep the scam alive.

I lost my father and was distraught. You know what helped? Getting back to work and staying busy.

They will milk this for a month and then have some new problem that is completely out of their control.

How do the people commenting positively not see through the act?
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There are none so blind as those who won’t see…
 
I think my eyes glazed over, a little fan boyishly, as Nathan delivered the gospel of delta V3.

But ya know, whatever works for whoever is, I'm sure, the best knife money can make... right Guy?
 
Bluegrass Survival said:
Sorry, but I don't agree with you at all. The fellas over at Carothers put their money where their mouth is. I have yet to own one of their fine blades, but I have seen them in action and the results speak for themselves. Their 3V Knives are tough as hell! They didn't just flash a winning smile and make a big claim, they proved it through grueling test published all over the web, and on top of that many of their customers that own their knives have abused them and come to the same conclusion, their Delta 3V Protocol is no fucking joke! Sorry for going off topic folks.
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It is not a Joke, it's just a heat treat protocol that is outside the data sheet with the primary difference being a low-temperature temper. I am basing my opinion on my own observations, study, and making thousands of blades in high-performance streels.. You are welcome to disagree.
 
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