Verpus77 or Bryan Busto 310A Dalene Way, Honolulu HI

otto said:
Sooo, we are saying the seller has to ask the buyer specifically if he, the buyer, will pay for insurance? Or is the buyer now required to buy the insurance? Just askin, I think insurance is always a good idea, but just do not think it should be a requirement.

I ship/shipped quite a few knives in the $50 to $150 range. I usually ask the buyer if they want to pay for insurance and they routinly decline. I ship mostly in USPS priority boxes or padded evelopes and take care to pack everything carefully.

I do disagree with the statement that that the seller is entirely responsible to get the item to the buyer, period. The seller is responsible for adequately packing the item, but once in the hands of the USPS or UPS etc. his responsibility should cease.

Agree? Or not?
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Disagree (with you).

The seller should get the knife safely to the buyer. If the carrier screws up, then that's something between the seller and the carrier. That's not something that is specific to knives or a specific forum, that's the way e-commerce works. If you order something from a merchant and don't receive it, you either get a refund or they ship another item.
 
This sub-forum is here to help each other out by exposing both good and bad deals. Other than scammers and crooks, when something like this happens the seller makes it right. It is our code of honor. This sub-forum is also here to able to see the character of the party we want to do business with.

Verpus77 has shown he is not an honorable person, and lacks the smallest amount of good character. Personally I will be watching for his name to appear in The Exchange threads, either as a buyer or seller. We have ways to contact each ohter, PMs or emails, and I will be using these to let anyone thinking about getting involved in a deal with Verpus77 about his lack of honor and credibility, and directing them to this thread. I hope everyone else here does the same.

In simple words, Verpus77 has made my shit list. This thread will be made known to anyone thinking about dealing with him.
 
From the new Exchange rules (edited to get to the issue here):



SECTION 2 - Rules for Selling / Trading / Offering Services:

Sellers -
Be specific with all details of payment and delivery. Ship promptly, ship with insurance unless the buyer specifies otherwise.

Buyers -
If you choose not to have your package insured to save money, it is your responsibility. Seriously, this is a terrible idea, and if you insist on it, the seller shouldn't have to pay for your mistake.

DEALS ARE NOT FINAL UNTIL BOTH PARTIES HAVE AGREED TO THE TERMS.
We strongly recommend that both parties quote the agreed upon terms to each other via email / private messaging / instant messaging so both parties understand their obligations. At any stage before money has changed hands, either party can back out.
 
otto said:
Sooo, we are saying the seller has to ask the buyer specifically if he, the buyer, will pay for insurance? Or is the buyer now required to buy the insurance? Just askin, I think insurance is always a good idea, but just do not think it should be a requirement.

I ship/shipped quite a few knives in the $50 to $150 range. I usually ask the buyer if they want to pay for insurance and they routinly decline. I ship mostly in USPS priority boxes or padded evelopes and take care to pack everything carefully.

I do disagree with the statement that that the seller is entirely responsible to get the item to the buyer, period. The seller is responsible for adequately packing the item, but once in the hands of the USPS or UPS etc. his responsibility should cease.

Agree? Or not?
Click to expand...

I as well happen to agree, I have recived and sent knives without the insurance when th eknives are in that price range as well. I have to also agree that if the item is properly packaged the seller is not 100% responsable for its delivery unless they are presonaly getting on a plane to drop it off at your door step.
 
Ridiculous. I don't pay you to send me a knife, I pay you for a knife.

Get on that plane and hand-deliver it if that's the best you can do. Or entrust it to a carrier that fails so rarely you can take a chance on self-insuring. Or buy the insurance and make the carrier pay for the failure while you reimburse the blameless buyer.
 
Damn_Animal said:
I have to also agree that if the item is properly packaged the seller is not 100% responsable for its delivery unless they are presonaly getting on a plane to drop it off at your door step.
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No offense meant but this means nothing in my opinion unless you have purchased a knife, never recieved it and weren't compensated in any way for your lost purchase, but, still feel this way.
 
roughedges said:
No offense meant but this means nothing in my opinion unless you have purchased a knife, never recieved it and weren't compensated in any way for your lost purchase, but, still feel this way.
Click to expand...

Never lost a knife this way but lost a pair of shoes and a laptop, but at the same time, it was not Nike or Toshiba that went and lost the package but the carrier.
 
Disagree (with you).

"The seller should get the knife safely to the buyer. If the carrier screws up, then that's something between the seller and the carrier. That's not something that is specific to knives or a specific forum, that's the way e-commerce works. If you order something from a merchant and don't receive it, you either get a refund or they ship another item. "
__________________

Ok, point well taken
O
 
Esav with 49 + Feedbacks and 11 years experience

vs

D A with 1 + in the 6 weeks he's been here.

The numbers speak for themselves.


Price the sale accordingly to include the Insurance, save everyone the headache. The Seller is responsible for the item arriving to the Buyer.

The Seller Buys the Insurance, files the paperwork and receives the payment from the insurance settlement. The Insurance is for the Seller to ensure the item arrives safely to the Buyer.
 
Damn_Animal said:
Never lost a knife this way but lost a pair of shoes and a laptop, but at the same time, it was not Nike or Toshiba that went and lost the package but the carrier.
Click to expand...

Were you the buyer or seller? Compensated for your loss?

It's really neither here nor there though. On Bladeforums, absent specific conditions, it is the seller's responsibility until it is in the hands of the buyer. There is still a way for the seller to cover his butt, it's simple. Just ask the buyer, "Would you like insurance with that?" before telling them the cost of shipping. By my understanding, as long as any answer is recieved, simply asking this question removes the seller from liability if the knife is lost in shipment. Or just simply include insurance in one's stated s/h charges.
 
It is the seller's responsibility to get the knife to the buyer - period.

Insurance protects the seller, not the buyer - so, it's the seller's responsibility to buy insurance if he/she feels it is needed - period.

It is the seller's responsibility to properly package the knife - period.

It is the seller's responsibility to provide a full refund to the buyer if the above conditions are not met - period.

What is the question here? There should be none - period!
 
Melvin-Purvis said:
It is the seller's responsibility to get the knife to the buyer - period.

Insurance protects the seller, not the buyer - so, it's the seller's responsibility to buy insurance if he/she feels it is needed - period.

It is the seller's responsibility to properly package the knife - period.

It is the seller's responsibility to provide a full refund to the buyer if the above conditions are not met - period.

What is the question here? There should be none - period!
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Precisely...That is what is lost in this entire discussion. Insurance is designed to protect the seller NOT the buyer. The buyer can choose to send his payment in different forms and by different methods, but it must be received by the seller, in its entirety, in order for him (buyer) to complete his part of the deal. In the same manner, the seller chooses his own method of shipping (with or without insurance), but does not complete his part of the deal until the knife has been received in its advertised condition by the buyer. I see no wiggle room here. No knife = full and complete refund - ASAP.
 
I shipped a $200 pen tablet for repairs once. I insured it in case something bad happened. I used one of their self sticky, adhesive boxes. I paid a whopping grand total of 4.75. :eek: That's for both shipping and insurance, and the package weighed more than most knives would after it was packed. There's really no reason not to insure it.
 
GWashington1732 said:
I shipped a $200 pen tablet for repairs once. I insured it in case something bad happened. I used one of their self sticky, adhesive boxes. I paid a whopping grand total of 4.75. :eek: That's for both shipping and insurance, and the package weighed more than most knives would after it was packed. There's really no reason not to insure it.
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+100 :thumbup:

These guys that think that paying 2 or 3 dollars for insurance on the average trade is gonna put them in the poor house is beyond pathetic. IT IS THEIR OBLIGATION ANYWAY!
 
otto said:
Sooo, we are saying the seller has to ask the buyer specifically if he, the buyer, will pay for insurance? Or is the buyer now required to buy the insurance? Just askin, I think insurance is always a good idea, but just do not think it should be a requirement.

I ship/shipped quite a few knives in the $50 to $150 range. I usually ask the buyer if they want to pay for insurance and they routinly decline. I ship mostly in USPS priority boxes or padded evelopes and take care to pack everything carefully.

I do disagree with the statement that that the seller is entirely responsible to get the item to the buyer, period. The seller is responsible for adequately packing the item, but once in the hands of the USPS or UPS etc. his responsibility should cease.

Agree? Or not?

Damn_Animal said:
I as well happen to agree, I have recived and sent knives without the insurance when th eknives are in that price range as well. I have to also agree that if the item is properly packaged the seller is not 100% responsable for its delivery unless they are presonaly getting on a plane to drop it off at your door step.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...

Disagree. As Esav states, you are being paid for the knife, not to send it...

Look folks, this is a Golden Rule situation here... "One should treat others according to how one would like others to treat one's self" If you were the buyer, how would you like to see your knife shipped? Wait...better yet, if you were buying a knife from yourself; what steps would you take to make sure that it got to you?

This is how I've learned to ship. The way I see it, and I believe how anyone should see it, is that when I ship one of my knives it is my knife until it reaches the hands of its new owner...I don't want to see or hear about my knife getting lost, stolen or damaged, just as I as a Buyer wouldn't want to see it lost, stolen or damaged. Since no shipping company has a 100% successful shipping record, carefully packing items for shipping and shipping insurance with (my preference) Signature Confirmation or the equivalent are crucial to successfully shipping valuable items...unless you expect, as the Seller, to cover the loss out of pocket without question every time there's a problem...

Personally, I take it one step further... I shoot 3 images of every knife I ship.
Image 1: knife clearly visible on shipping box with address labels.
Image 2: knife wrapped up with secondary address label attached, sitting on the box ready to be placed in the box with material stuffed around it.
Image 3: Package with primary address label affixed, sealed & taped up and ready to roll.
Once I know that the knife has been received with no complications and my Buyer is 100% satisfied, I delete the images.

If you ask anyone whom I've shipped a knife to, they'll tell you that it's a challenge to open my package and get to the securely shipped knife. If it's not very easy for them, it's going to be a straight up PITA for the contents to separate from the box while in transit...Just how I like to see knives shipped to me. All this effort, and I still pay for the insurance every time.

verpus77 said:
...There will always be a level of risk when shipping, and receiving, an item...
Click to expand...

Verpus77 significantly increased this risk because of the way he chose to send the knife. Even if he had bought the insurance, there is probably a 99.5% or higher chance the USPS would have laughed while quickly denying his claim based on just the photo Ivan 51 has shown and one question... What was supposed to be inside the document shipping envelope (a fixed-blade knife weighing approximately 1 pound). It is clearly improperly packaged.

Had Verpus77 properly packaged the knife in a box and it got lost/stolen/damaged, then I probably would not be holding him accountable for more than 50% of value as long as his FS listing did not state insurance is to be provided...albeit grudgingly. Ivan51 probably should have asked...but since this would have mostly likely been a denied claim from the moment this knife was placed in that Priority mailer regardless of how he claimed it was packaged, Verpus77 should definitely be on the hook for the full amount.

Edited To Add: the last paragraph above this edit is my personal opinion which was based on the old set of Exchange rules... The NEWLY REVISED RULES for the EXCHANGE state the following with regards to shipping insurance:

Spark said:
SECTION 2 - Rules for Selling / Trading / Offering Services:
Use common sense - Be 100% sure you are ready to go before you do anything. This means:
  1. Sellers - Be 100% sure that you want to sell the item and are satisfied with the selling price
    1. Provide an honest and detailed description.
    2. Provide as many photos as possible, in the best lighting possible.
    3. When in doubt, be pessimistic with your descriptions.
    4. Be specific with all details of payment and delivery. Ship promptly, ship with insurance unless the buyer specifies otherwise.
    5. Do not sell defective products, or attempt to hide defects
Click to expand...

 
Last edited:
Jaxx wrote: "Had Verpus77 properly packaged the knife in a box and it got lost/stolen/damaged, then I probably would not be holding him accountable for more than 50% of value as long as his FS listing did not state insurance is to be provided...albeit grudgingly."

Jaxx, that is absolutely crap by any stretch! It is the sellers responsibility to get the knife to the buyer, packaged properly, and insured if the seller so sees fit - and to forking reimburse the funds in full if the knife (item) doesn't arrive. No half, no part, no percentage... :mad:

It is not the buyers responsibility to do anything other than to pay for the knife and provide a valid shipping address - for you to suggest otherwise not only muddies the water, shows that you haven't got a clue as to what you're talking about, but also gives the weasels wiggle room.

If you don't know what you're talking about, then please keep your misguided thoughts to yourself (and while you're doing that, you might want to refamiliarize yourself with both the BFC forum rules, and those on most websites that deal with the shipping of purchased merchandise)...

Respectfully submitted,

Sheldon Wickersham

p.s. and don't edit your post this time either...
 
Is there a way to discuss the topic without tearing each other apart? Anyone can get tangled up in all this misinformation. Correct the misinformation and leave it at that.
 
I was wrong.

I was wrong when I listed my first items for sale here and only stated the price for item with no option for insurance, nor paying for it. I have since changed that and it is purchased no matter what with signature confirmation.

I was wrong when I also listed my items for sale and gave the option to pay, when paying by paypal, by either the gift option or to tack on 3% to the price. I only recently realized this and regret the amount of transactions I completed in this manner. From this point forward I will only accept regular paypal as payment, but rather than require the buyer to pay the fee I will instead eat it.

And while I have prided myself in securely packaging items to be mailed out, not once have I ever thought to include an address on the item itself should the box become compromised. I now will.

None of us are perfect here Verpus77. But we can do things that can help us minimize the chance of a fault occurring. And should one occur, the steps we take after will speak volumes of our character.

Yes, risks are taken each and every day. Throw that risk out and put yourself in those shoes opposite you. How would it feel spending a pretty nice figure on a much wanted item. After submitting payment, the wait, anticipation, and excitement all set in. Finally, the day arrives and the package is here... yet, it's not. All that arrives is an empty envelope. The post office won't help you because the item was not packaged properly. The seller won't help you out because these things happen, despite having had no issues prior with this same shipping method. It isn't such a nice position to hold and one would wonder why the seller wouldn't make this situation right.

Sometimes it takes a lot to admit we are wrong when we are. And sometimes it takes a little bit more to right a wronged situation. But we are better for it and we learn from it. It's about doing what's right and striving to do better the next time.
 
Melvin-Purvis said:
Jaxx wrote: "Had Verpus77 properly packaged the knife in a box and it got lost/stolen/damaged, then I probably would not be holding him accountable for more than 50% of value as long as his FS listing did not state insurance is to be provided...albeit grudgingly."

Jaxx, that is absolutely crap by any stretch! It is the sellers responsibility to get the knife to the buyer, packaged properly, and insured if the seller so sees fit - and to forking reimburse the funds in full if the knife (item) doesn't arrive. No half, no part, no percentage... :mad:

It is not the buyers responsibility to do anything other than to pay for the knife and provide a valid shipping address - for you to suggest otherwise not only muddies the water, shows that you haven't got a clue as to what you're talking about, but also gives the weasels wiggle room.

If you don't know what you're talking about, then please keep your misguided thoughts to yourself (and while you're doing that, you might want to refamiliarize yourself with both the BFC forum rules, and those on most websites that deal with the shipping of purchased merchandise)...

Respectfully submitted,

Sheldon Wickersham

p.s. and don't edit your post this time either...
Click to expand...

My apologies, Sheldon, I missed that point in the revised rules. Now, if you'll excuse me, I WILL edit my post to bring the quoted section in line with the new rule that you have referred to, but will show the edit. I'm still memorizing these changes myself...and keep in mind that these rules went into effect after this package arrived without the knife. Apparently Verpus77 has decided to completely ditch his responsibilities on this failed transaction at this time...Which I do think is completely wrong of him to do, period.
Under the old rules, I stated that I believe that he should be on the hook for the full amount, but also under the old rules, had the knife been properly packaged and given a proper shot at a successful delivery, half would have been a good start and better than none, even though that completely sucks too...

Esav Benyamin said:
Anybody who buys from you in the future is making a serious mistake. You just destroyed your own case.

Had you immediately refunded half his money, this thread would have been a discussion about any remaining liability. Now it is about your using your wounded ego to avoid paying the least of what you know you owe.

I am not impressed.
Click to expand...

Also...most of my post edits are to clarify what I have written or to correct typos. I don't change my opinion when I do this, I just try to make my posts clearer. Sorry, I am not an English major...but typos and such, especially mine, drive me nutz.

Best Regards,
Alexander Churchman
 
Just wanted to say that I had a similar thing happen once, an order of knives from AG Russell. It was obvious that someone at the Post Office had opened the package and stolen the knives, leaving the empty boxes in the package. S- happens, even with the best delivery services.

And you know what, I made a simple phone call to AG's customer service and a new package was immediately sent to me. No hassle, no fuss, no delay.

Seems like that should have been the case in this instance also.
 
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