Why not Strider??

[Josh K]

All right then,would you care to confess how and why do you "beat" your knives?I`ve been a knifeknut since the age of 5 and I have never "beaten" a knife.Knives are primarily cutting instruments although some are optimized for killing people,those can be distinguished by long,narrow pointy blades,often double-edged and always made of flexible steel.What purpose are Strider folders and FBs made for?

PS.This is a "killing knife":
http://grecoknives.com/whisper_ct_with_black_powder_coat_finish.htm

Yeah, a "killing knife" isn't very useful for much more then stabs. Strider's FB lineup (which I don't like, I can find better) are primarily overbuilt general purpose knives.

I beat my SMF because I can. I don't beat on my other knives. I confess? Is English your first language?

Where to knives optimized for killing people come into a "Why not Strider?" thread?

 

[anythingsharp]

Yeah, a "killing knife" isn't very useful for much more then stabs. Strider's FB lineup (which I don't like, I can find better) are primarily overbuilt general purpose knives.

I beat my SMF because I can. I don't beat on my other knives. I confess? Is English your first language?

Where to knives optimized for killing people come into a "Why not Strider?" thread?

No,English is not my native language.I can beat the hell out of my TV set because I can but I don`t.Strider knives are designed as combat knives so they must have have certain characteristics of a killing knife.General purpose knives are kitchen knives and Swiss army knives.Combat knife must be somewhat optimized for penetrating bodies but (if you only carry one knife into combat) must also have "prybar" qualities such as the thickness of stock and point strength to pry open boxes etc.A stiletto like Fairbarn is a pure killing knife,a Cattaraugus Quartermaster is a sharpened prybar.An Americanized tanto is a good compromise between these 2 extremes.

 

[Josh K]

No,English is not my native language.I can beat the hell out of my TV set because I can but I don`t.Strider knives are designed as combat knives so they must have have certain characteristics of a killing knife.General purpose knives are kitchen knives and Swiss army knives.Combat knife must be somewhat optimized for penetrating bodies but (if you only carry one knife into combat) must also have "prybar" qualities such as the thickness of stock and point strength to pry open boxes etc.A stiletto like Fairbarn is a pure killing knife,a Cattaraugus Quartermaster is a sharpened prybar.An Americanized tanto is a good compromise between these 2 extremes.

Yeah, "penetrating bodies" is a definite plus.

General purpose is general purpose. Kitchen knives aren't general purpose.

 

[anythingsharp]

Yeah, "penetrating bodies" is a definite plus.

General purpose is general purpose. Kitchen knives aren't general purpose.

Why did you attach rolleyes and sarcastic smilies to "penetrating bodies"?I`m the first one to say that the actual knife combat occurs so rarely nowadays that all the knife-fighting fantasies belong to the shrink`s couch but isn`t this armchair special forces fantasy the driving force behind the countless "combat" knives?Nevertheless a combat knife will always exist and be used once in a great while for the purpose of killing people.

If Strider is a general purpose knife,why are they so overbuilt?We are back to the prybar thing.

 

[Josh K]

Why did you attach rolleyes and sarcastic smilies to "penetrating bodies"?I`m the first one to say that the actual knife combat occurs so rarely nowadays that all the knife-fighting fantasies belong to the shrink`s couch but isn`t this armchair special forces fantasy the driving force behind the countless "combat" knives?Nevertheless a combat knife will always exist and be used once in a great while for the purpose of killing people.

If Strider is a general purpose knife,why are they so overbuilt?We are back to the prybar thing.

I attach them because first you say combat knives should be prybars, then you say they need to be thin and narrow for "penetrating bodies." You're contradicting yourself.

You can have overbuilt general purpose knives.

 

[anythingsharp]

I attach them because first you say combat knives should be prybars, then you say they need to be thin and narrow for "penetrating bodies." You're contradicting yourself.

You can have overbuilt general purpose knives.

If I had my choice of a close-combat weapon it would be US army knuckle trench knife model 1917 with a triangular spike blade and a hand guard/knuckle.Ease of penetration is the most important quality in a killing knife,cutting your enemy with a knife is a laughable fantasy (which has sold countless "combat" knives).But a soldier also must have a sturdy prybar general purpose blade.Since carrying 2 large blades is unrealistic,the Strider-type Americanized tanto is a great compromise between these 2 purposes.But it must be made of a flexible steel capable of withstanding impact,the best steel for this is jackhammer steel S7,if it`s good enough for penetrating concrete,it`s good enough for any combat purpose.Stainlessness and edge holding are the last things a real soldier worries about,he can carry an S30V Native which weighs next to nothing for cutting food or skinning those who hate our freedoms.

 

[Keith Montgomery]

Combat knives are seldom, if ever, used for killing. They are used for everyday chores that may include prying. S30V is tough for a stainless steel, and when the blade is thick it should stand up to being used for prying in most instances. I certainly haven't heard of Strider knives having a breakage problem.

 

[TyMathews]

If I had my choice of a close-combat weapon it would be US army knuckle trench knife model 1917 with a triangular spike blade and a hand guard/knuckle.Ease of penetration is the most important quality in a killing knife,cutting your enemy with a knife is a laughable fantasy (which has sold countless "combat" knives).But a soldier also must have a sturdy prybar general purpose blade.Since carrying 2 large blades is unrealistic,the Strider-type Americanized tanto is a great compromise between these 2 purposes.But it must be made of a flexible steel capable of withstanding impact,the best steel for this is jackhammer steel S7,if it`s good enough for penetrating concrete,it`s good enough for any combat purpose.Stainlessness and edge holding are the last things a real soldier worries about,he can carry an S30V Native which weighs next to nothing for cutting food or skinning those who hate our freedoms.

Wow. We skin people now?

-Tye

 

[Josh K]

If I had my choice of a close-combat weapon it would be US army knuckle trench knife model 1917 with a triangular spike blade and a hand guard/knuckle.Ease of penetration is the most important quality in a killing knife,cutting your enemy with a knife is a laughable fantasy (which has sold countless "combat" knives).But a soldier also must have a sturdy prybar general purpose blade.Since carrying 2 large blades is unrealistic,the Strider-type Americanized tanto is a great compromise between these 2 purposes.But it must be made of a flexible steel capable of withstanding impact,the best steel for this is jackhammer steel S7,if it`s good enough for penetrating concrete,it`s good enough for any combat purpose.Stainlessness and edge holding are the last things a real soldier worries about,he can carry an S30V Native which weighs next to nothing for cutting food or skinning those who hate our freedoms.

So first you advocate simple carbon, and they you say S7? Stop flipping back and forth.

Tanto's are a useless compromise because they do neither very well. They don't penetrate very far (thick obtuse tip) and they don't slice or pry very well.

There is a big difference between penetrating concrete and a general purpose knife steel. Using your argument, hardened carbide bits (used to drill concrete) must be great, right?

 

[John T Wylie Jr]

There is no way a folding knife with an S30V blade can cost more than 500$, period.

Can you explain to me why a folder with an S30v blade should not cost more than $500 ? Checking the various purveyor sites , I see plenty of other makers folders selling for well more than $500 , some over $1K ( and higher ).
Just trying to understand your meaning with that statement.

Thanks.

John

 

[LorenzoL]

Can you explain to me why a folder with an S30v blade should not cost more than $500 ? Checking the various purveyor sites , I see plenty of other makers folders selling for well more than $500 , some over $1K ( and higher ).
Just trying to understand your meaning with that statement.

Thanks.

John

You should name a few of those knives over 1.000$ so I know what you are talking about, but I would think you must refer to custom knives made by custom knifemakers, with a high degree of finish and expensive handle materials. Definitely not the case of a knife that looks like a soap box and is finished barely better.
Striders are supposed to be ultimate all-purpose cutting tools, cost more than an eye, and yet come with a steel that is far from high end.
Today's top steels are M4, S90V, S110V, CPM-3V and so on.
Plus, Striders also ditched the Bos heat treat and their blades are not ground in-house. Talk about custom knives!

 

[John T Wylie Jr]

Thanks for the reply , I was under the impression you were talking about any knife with a S30v blade as you said :

There is no way a folding knife with an S30V blade can cost more than 500$, period.

thought you were meaning any knife by any maker with a s30v blade , custom , production , mid-tech or other.

my apology , my mistake...sorry bout that.... back to my morning coffee

 

[anythingsharp]

So first you advocate simple carbon, and they you say S7? Stop flipping back and forth.

Tanto's are a useless compromise because they do neither very well. They don't penetrate very far (thick obtuse tip) and they don't slice or pry very well.

There is a big difference between penetrating concrete and a general purpose knife steel. Using your argument, hardened carbide bits (used to drill concrete) must be great, right?

S7 is simple carbon steel with a bit silicon added,what did you think it was?

What better compromise between penetrating and prybar design than Americanized tanto do you think exists?

There is a big difference between drilling concrete and BREAKING concrete,a drill is not subjected to the same impact/lateral forces as a jackhammer bit,carbide is brittle,that`s why it`s not used for jackhammer bits.

Americanized tanto can be made very pointy like some Hossom blades (if I`m not mistaken) or a CRKT Hissatsu,the angle of the tip can be varied for the purpose.

 

[LorenzoL]

Thanks for the reply , I was under the impression you were talking about any knife with a S30v blade as you said :



thought you were meaning any knife by any maker with a s30v blade , custom , production , mid-tech or other.

my apology , my mistake...sorry bout that.... back to my morning coffee

No problem, although for "morning coffee", it's a bit late

 

[John T Wylie Jr]

its still morning until I hit the shop and actually turn on the grinder....shhhhh !

 

[tomcrx]

Well stated! I think this next piece really drives the point home! Notice what Strider Knives says will happen to "liars and cheaters" in the "Military Discount" section of their old site!

Regards,
3G

LOL I spit soda out of my nose when I read that on Strider's site. I never saw that before. Great link 3G. Who hunts the hunter ??

From old Strider site:

Do you offer any discounts for active military?

Since our founding we have always, and will continue, to offer a 20% discount to all active-duty enlisted military personnel.

Why? Because we (meaning everyone at Strider) come from that background. Along with this discount we offer the hope of making your deployment date. In other words, if you are on your way into harm's way, give us a call. We will do our best to put you at the front of our waiting list and get your gear to you before your date. Liars and cheaters will be hunted.

If you're an active duty officer, sorry. We salute you, but you have enough money to pay full price. If your concern is your D-date, give us a call; we may work something out.

 

[Josh K]

You should name a few of those knives over 1.000$ so I know what you are talking about, but I would think you must refer to custom knives made by custom knifemakers, with a high degree of finish and expensive handle materials. Definitely not the case of a knife that looks like a soap box and is finished barely better.
Striders are supposed to be ultimate all-purpose cutting tools, cost more than an eye, and yet come with a steel that is far from high end.
Today's top steels are M4, S90V, S110V, CPM-3V and so on.
Plus, Striders also ditched the Bos heat treat and their blades are not ground in-house. Talk about custom knives!

S30V is a top steel. S90V, M4, S110V, 3V are all impractical in that use. Plus (iirc) 3V doesn't have as much edge retention as S30V.

F&F on my Striders are very good, perhaps you should send yours back? Pictures of this sloppy finish would be good.

Who cares how it looks, it's how it performs.

They use the Bos heat treat, it just isn't done by Bos himself.

Who said their blades weren't ground in house?

 

[Josh K]

S7 is simple carbon steel with a bit silicon added,what did you think it was?

What better compromise between penetrating and prybar design than Americanized tanto do you think exists?

There is a big difference between drilling concrete and BREAKING concrete,a drill is not subjected to the same impact/lateral forces as a jackhammer bit,carbide is brittle,that`s why it`s not used for jackhammer bits.

Americanized tanto can be made very pointy like some Hossom blades (if I`m not mistaken) or a CRKT Hissatsu,the angle of the tip can be varied for the purpose.

According to http://www.sousacorp.com/ts-comp.htm#SHOCK- RESISTING TOOL STEELS, it has a little Cr and Mo added. Not simple carbon.

There is no compromise. Thickness, not grind.

Yes, I understand the difference, I wasn't sure you did. Steels have a purpose, S7's edge retention isn't near S30V. Edge retention (no matter what you say) is important.

True, the tanto shape can be altered. Your point?

 

[anythingsharp]

5160 has a bit of chromium,10xx steels have manganese,they are still "simple" steels.What makes a steel stainless is chromium percentage above 12%.Chromium above 3-4% negatively affects flexibility while 0.5 to about 2% greatly improves it.The best steels for a combat knife are sawblade or jackhammer steels which have small amounts of chromium,manganese,nickel,moly,vanadium and tungsten that don`t reduce flexibility.

 

[Josh K]

5160 has a bit of chromium,10xx steels have manganese,they are still "simple" steels.What makes a steel stainless is chromium percentage above 12%.Chromium above 3-4% negatively affects flexibility while 0.5 to about 2% greatly improves it.The best steels for a combat knife are sawblade or jackhammer steels which have small amounts of chromium,manganese,nickel,moly,vanadium and tungsten that don`t reduce flexibility.

Again, why do I want a bendy knife?