Why not Strider??

The way I see it is like this as of this writing. Mick was quoted somewhere, maybe it was here in his forum when they were here I really don't recall but the jist of what he said was, (note the bold type)

Originally Posted by Mick Strider:
We live in a world where people feel as if they have the right to act with complete impunity.
That bothers me. Because of that, I hold people accountable for their words and actions.

Finding this quote and realizing for the first time what it meant after it sunk in for what it actually says, I sold my last Strider PT off a little while back. Not because I didn't like the knife or even appreciate it for what it was, because as I've said to many that have asked me about the Strider folders, they are well built knives and there is certainly nothing wrong with them judging it as the tool it is regardless of who was behind it. The reason I finally said the heck with the Strider company was that if the situation were reversed and Mick was posting in this thread about one who acted with complete impunity, he would certainly hold them accountable for their actions, words or both and we can say with 100% certainty that this is a true statement. (see above if you doubt that)

If it were me I'm sure he'd never own any product from me again and likely the following of fans he has both that gather around his table at shows as well as those that hang in his forums would not own anything by me either and honestly I doubt he'd be able to look at one of my folders and judge it the way I've judged his products, looking at it fairly for what it is regardless of who's name was on it. I'd like to be wrong on that but something came up a while back that got back to me and if its true well, I think I know how he feels about anything belonging to me just because I simply had the gall to comment here on the issue when it first broke headlines on the forums.

Seeing and reading some of Mick's past reactions to people (his customers by the way)that dared do something as simple as question the quality of the knives they owned which were built by Mick or his company, Mick called the man a loser among other things before it was all over. I venture to say that Mick would most likely be quite verbal about his posts in reply to a matter like this if the situation were reversed and most likely quite vulgar as well. In fact it seems to me he proved this by his posts to Mr. Ossman who later sued him and won.

Therefore I see no reason why I should be any different in my feelings for this matter toward Mick Strider. It should be plainly obvious to anyone else that if it were the reverse situation and it were you in Mick's shoes that you would be held accountable by Mick so he should be held accountable just as you would be. Do unto others as they would do unto you. End of story.

STR
 
The strongest folder in the world is made by John Greco,the framelock is made entirely from carbon steel,they are very tough to open AND close at first and need to be "broken in".You can still get them for around 100$.When I go to shows I see Strider`s table surrounded by a huge crowd of predictably fat and moustashio`d men while the other makers barely get any traffic.I pass his table without stopping,look him in the eye and I can feel a certain mixture of shame and uncertainty in him,me being one of the rare ones "who knows".The knifemakers and dealers I talk to at the shows (all big names that I won`t mention) all laugh at this situation and the whole Strider thing.

If he is reading this,let me say this again,I like your designs a lot,I hate your choice of "trendy" stainless steel and I hate your prices.The fact that you lied about military service is bad,doing time in jail for carjacking is bad too but not particulary heinous considering what else people have done to each other on this planet.Lower your prices and the chromium content in your steel,apologize to those you have offended and you may become the Strider people will respect.
 
AWOL, No rank, E1 Private, 11 Months, a one way ticket home. All his Army stories are pure BS. Anyone that wants to defend him and what he has done deserves the prison sex he gives his friends and customers.

The way I see it is like this as of this writing. Mick was quoted somewhere, maybe it was here in his forum when they were here I really don't recall but the jist of what he said was, (note the bold type)

Originally Posted by Mick Strider:
We live in a world where people feel as if they have the right to act with complete impunity.
That bothers me. Because of that, I hold people accountable for their words and actions.

Finding this quote and realizing for the first time what it meant after it sunk in for what it actually says, I sold my last Strider PT off a little while back. Not because I didn't like the knife or even appreciate it for what it was, because as I've said to many that have asked me about the Strider folders, they are well built knives and there is certainly nothing wrong with them judging it as the tool it is regardless of who was behind it. The reason I finally said the heck with the Strider company was that if the situation were reversed and Mick was posting in this thread about one who acted with complete impunity, he would certainly hold them accountable for their actions, words or both and we can say with 100% certainty that this is a true statement. (see above if you doubt that)

If it were me I'm sure he'd never own any product from me again and likely the following of fans he has both that gather around his table at shows as well as those that hang in his forums would not own anything by me either and honestly I doubt he'd be able to look at one of my folders and judge it the way I've judged his products, looking at it fairly for what it is regardless of who's name was on it. I'd like to be wrong on that but something came up a while back that got back to me and if its true well, I think I know how he feels about anything belonging to me just because I simply had the gall to comment here on the issue when it first broke headlines on the forums.

Seeing and reading some of Mick's past reactions to people (his customers by the way)that dared do something as simple as question the quality of the knives they owned which were built by Mick or his company, Mick called the man a loser among other things before it was all over. I venture to say that Mick would most likely be quite verbal about his posts in reply to a matter like this if the situation were reversed and most likely quite vulgar as well. In fact it seems to me he proved this by his posts to Mr. Ossman who later sued him and won.

Therefore I see no reason why I should be any different in my feelings for this matter toward Mick Strider. It should be plainly obvious to anyone else that if it were the reverse situation and it were you in Mick's shoes that you would be held accountable by Mick so he should be held accountable just as you would be. Do unto others as they would do unto you. End of story.

STR

Well stated! I think this next piece really drives the point home! Notice what Strider Knives says will happen to "liars and cheaters" in the "Military Discount" section of their old site!

Regards,
3G
 
When I go to shows I see Strider`s table surrounded by a huge crowd of predictably fat and moustashio`d men
Any of 'em look like this guy?:D
DSC_6796.JPG
 
The strongest folder in the world is made by John Greco,the framelock is made entirely from carbon steel,they are very tough to open AND close at first and need to be "broken in".You can still get them for around 100$.When I go to shows I see Strider`s table surrounded by a huge crowd of predictably fat and moustashio`d men while the other makers barely get any traffic.I pass his table without stopping,look him in the eye and I can feel a certain mixture of shame and uncertainty in him,me being one of the rare ones "who knows".The knifemakers and dealers I talk to at the shows (all big names that I won`t mention) all laugh at this situation and the whole Strider thing.

If he is reading this,let me say this again,I like your designs a lot,I hate your choice of "trendy" stainless steel and I hate your prices.The fact that you lied about military service is bad,doing time in jail for carjacking is bad too but not particulary heinous considering what else people have done to each other on this planet.Lower your prices and the chromium content in your steel,apologize to those you have offended and you may become the Strider people will respect.

Why exactly would they use carbon steel? Sure 1095 might be tougher, but that's a spring steel. It's cheap, rusts just from looking at it, and edge retention is nowhere near S30V.
 
Why carbon steel, there are a load of tool steels. How about 3V or M4, both tougher, and similar or higher wear resistance. All they need is a coating to limit corrosion, which Striders have anyway. I would also toss 1V in for experimentation. And why does it matter if the steel is cheap?
 
Everybody's an expert cause they dug up some archives, yet how many of you really know the truth about their past, and not just spouting regurgitated crap.

All I've seen in this thread is a bunch of people who were all about bashing Strider in the past finally take a step back and admit that the knives speak for themselves, the others, well, they should take the hint.

I personally don't agree with what they have been accused of, but I haven't seen any concrete proof, only crap being flung from the monkeys on this site, thats it. I never bought their knives because the makers were "high-speed", but because of how they feel in my hands.
 
You apparently haven't looked very hard, or at all. There are literally thousands of posts hashing this out, with links to DD-214s, court decisions, and statements made by those in the military and particularly special operations who have clearly stated that Strider and Dwyer did not do what they claimed.
 
Going back to their knives, I am not an expert, owning just one SMF CC, but I will say this: they are strongly built, badly finished and way overpriced. There is no way a folding knife with an S30V blade can cost more than 500$, period. I am a fool for buying one. Had I read this thread a month ago, I would not even have looked at that knife. How can you pay top dollars for a product if the integrity of its makers is in question?
Also, I read somewhere that Strider is no longer grinding the blades in-house, except for the "custom" models.
I'll probably end up selling my SMF at a loss, which is also telling about the way Strider prices are manipulated: if there really was a 6-month waiting list for their knives, prices of new Striders on the secondary market would be very close to MSRP, but they are not. I think Strider dealers create this false impression that demand exceeds production, and that orders from military personnel are also creating this backlog.
How many soldiers can really afford a 500$ folder and how many actually carry one?
 
Everytime you buy a Chinese product you can be sure an under-aged and/or an underpaid employee was involved.


That's silly.

Since the majority of the population, (especially in China with a one child policy and therefore less children per capita as most other countries), is of working age, then it is much more likely that chinese employees are of working age.

The one child policy probably makes it even more likely - as I understand it because most chinese only have a single child they tend to spoil their children.

India might be a different matter, but I think the chinese tend to insulate their kids a lot now.

As for being underpaid, it's relative, but if you believe in market economics, then the price of Chinese labour is, at the correct price, because the market has decided.

I agree that by my standards and probably yours chinese labour works cheap but that's not the same as being underpaid. They are being paid the exact right amount as decided by supply and demand.

I'm underpaid compared to people who do the same job on Wall Street or in "The City" in London, but not compared to other people who do what do where I do it.

Sometimes I just have to play devil's advocate.
I can't help it the voices make me do it.
 
Everybody's an expert cause they dug up some archives, yet how many of you really know the truth about their past, and not just spouting regurgitated crap.

It was something that Mick and Duane were never able to refute, so I don't think it was crap. Both Mick and Duane stated that they were going to sue the people that were making all these false accusations against them. Have you seen any lawsuits?

killyourself038 said:
All I've seen in this thread is a bunch of people who were all about bashing Strider in the past finally take a step back and admit that the knives speak for themselves, the others, well, they should take the hint.

When I read those past threads, very few people posted anything bad about the knives. In fact, most people praised them. It was the owners of the company that took the slagging.

killyourself038 said:
I personally don't agree with what they have been accused of, but I haven't seen any concrete proof, only crap being flung from the monkeys on this site, thats it. I never bought their knives because the makers were "high-speed", but because of how they feel in my hands.

The proof is there. You just didn't look very hard or aren't willing to accept it.
 
Everybody's an expert cause they dug up some archives, yet how many of you really know the truth about their past, and not just spouting regurgitated crap.

All I've seen in this thread is a bunch of people who were all about bashing Strider in the past finally take a step back and admit that the knives speak for themselves, the others, well, they should take the hint.

I personally don't agree with what they have been accused of, but I haven't seen any concrete proof, only crap being flung from the monkeys on this site, thats it. I never bought their knives because the makers were "high-speed", but because of how they feel in my hands.

I'm entertained by the apologists seeing what is said as bashing. Read the archives. It is composed of archives containing posts by Mick himself I might add both of which contain the lies and stories of combat no one twisted his arm to make. Read the stories of serving his country when he was actually in prison at the time (look up the dates) and then later admissions that he never served in combat, never finished Ranger school, posts by him containing front and back sides of his own DD214 (authentic or not still remains a question) and more. If the archives containing many of Mick's own words are your argument for his innocence you need to do your research better because that is not a winning argument.

You don't agree with what they are accused of? OK fair enough. What about what was admitted to? Concrete enough for you? Most of the crap I see being flung, and most of the bashing I see is from folks with the weak arguments directed at those with the better ones containing more facts. 3 Guardsman showed that Strider said cheaters and liars will be hunted. In case you missed that he is referring to cheaters and liars about military service there. Apparently you don't hunt though, otherwise you'd be following Mick's advice and get to hunting.

What is the hint anyway? That the knives speak for themselves and thats all you should need? If thats the case how many Cold Steel knives do you own? Many of them speak for themselves as loudly as any Strider. Funny how the argument is only good for one side on most of the statements like this isn't it?

EDIT: I'll add that most people getting so angry at those pointing out the facts is simply because pointing out the facts of the situation knocks their rose colored glasses askew for a time if not completely off, which forces them to see the world for what it is, at least for a time. People don't want the facts they want the fantasy. As another example of this. Some poor sap pointed out the other night in a youtube video comment about a guy in America's got talent how the sneer by a judge, followed by making fun of the contestant and laughing at either the way they talk, walk or dress was all tells. He was of course referring to the scripted event and the acting going on by the judges for the benefit of the audience and to get a reaction from the audience that inevitably lead to the fact that when you see these tells its obvious the star is about to be born. Sure enough thats what happens each time. It has happened across the board on every one of those reality shows before a new 'winner' with all the signs showing in the script that he or she is the 'real deal' and that a star is about to born into the lime light.

You know what happened after he pointed out the facts about the event being staged? The poor sap got his head chewed off! People got mad at him for knocking their rosy colored glasses off because it ruined their fantasy. They would rather believe its real and chew the judges for making fun of the country boy than know the truth that the whole thing is like Wrestlemania and scripted. If you want to believe Mick is the victim go ahead and put your rose colored glasses back on but if you are going to hang in threads like these you better strap em on real good or they'll get knocked off again.

STR
 
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Why exactly would they use carbon steel? Sure 1095 might be tougher, but that's a spring steel. It's cheap, rusts just from looking at it, and edge retention is nowhere near S30V.

Cheap is great,that` what I want.The most overpriced knife is not necesseraly the best knife.John Greco makes the best knives for the buck AND also some of the best knives inside the "regular" tried and true carbon steel class of fixed blades.3V may outpeform a bit his A2 and 8670 in terms of edge-holding but does paying 3-5 what Greco is charging for his 8670,A2 and 1075,5160 knives justify the price?

A survival-type prybar knife doesn`t need to hold the edge forever,it`s not a cutting instrument but mostly for stabbing and prying.The fact that carbon steel rusts is not the steel`s fault,it`s the owner`s fault who is too lazy to wipe his knife after use.

Edge holding is the last thing a soldier needs to worry about unless he plans to skin his enemies and stainlessness MAY be needed only in dive knives,(US troops in WW2 used Kabars as their dive knives with no problems.They were from the greatest generation and simply wiped them with oil after use).

You can get this folder on sale for 99$ and even cheaper on secondary market,it makes buying Strider and Sebenza shall I put it mildly, unwise:
http://grecoknives.com/whisper_folder.htm

Spyderco makes the perfect use of S30V,their folders are cutting instruments only.S30V prybar is a scam in itself.The Holy Graal of knives,tough/flexible,hard like tungsten carbide and stainless will never be found in one blade.
 
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Cheap is great,that` what I want.The most overpriced knife is not necesseraly the best knife.John Greco makes the best knives for the buck AND also some of the best knives inside the "regular" tried and true carbon steel class of fixed blades.3V may outpeform a bit his A2 and 8670 in terms of edge-holding but does paying 3-5 what Greco is charging for his 8670,A2 and 1075,5160 knives justify the price?

A survival-type prybar knife doesn`t need to hold the edge forever,it`s not a cutting instrument but mostly for stabbing and prying.The fact that carbon steel rusts is not the steel`s fault,it`s the owner`s fault who is too lazy to wipe his knife after use.

Edge holding is the last thing a soldier needs to worry about unless he plans to skin his enemies and stainlessness MAY be needed only in dive knives,(US troops in WW2 used Kabars as their dive knives with no problems.They were from the greatest generation and simply wiped them with oil after use).

I would disagree with that. People don't make "survival-type prybar knife." You either make a knife or a prybar. Edge holding is important, and shame on anyone who says it's not. 1095 isn't bad, A2 isn't bad, but S30V has a great deal of edge retention while still being tough. I don't see it as a bad choice.

In a true "survival" type situation my knife would be the last thing I would use for prying. :thumbdn:
 
Cheap is great,that` what I want.The most overpriced knife is not necesseraly the best knife.John Greco makes the best knives for the buck AND also some of the best knives inside the "regular" tried and true carbon steel class of fixed blades.3V may outpeform a bit his A2 and 8670 in terms of edge-holding but does paying 3-5 what Greco is charging for his 8670,A2 and 1075,5160 knives justify the price?

A survival-type prybar knife doesn`t need to hold the edge forever,it`s not a cutting instrument but mostly for stabbing and prying.The fact that carbon steel rusts is not the steel`s fault,it`s the owner`s fault who is too lazy to wipe his knife after use.

Edge holding is the last thing a soldier needs to worry about unless he plans to skin his enemies and stainlessness MAY be needed only in dive knives,(US troops in WW2 used Kabars as their dive knives with no problems.They were from the greatest generation and simply wiped them with oil after use).

You can get this folder on sale for 99$ and even cheaper on secondary market,it makes buying Strider and Sebenza shall I put it mildly, unwise:
http://grecoknives.com/whisper_folder.htm

Now to comment on the edited post. :rolleyes:

If cheap is what you want, go get some fantasy knives made out of pot metal. This isn't about buying the most overpriced knife possible, it's about getting the best knife possible. I think a SMF is a better choice then that.

On that "Whisper Folder" you linked to, it looks unfinished. The handles look like they have sharp corners, and that grind is not something I really like. Looks almost like a shallow hollow grind.

$99? It's listed for $165, and "on sale" wouldn't be a 40% discount. If it's cheaper on the secondary market my guess is not a lot of people like them and are willing to take a good loss on the knife to move it.
 
I would disagree with that. People don't make "survival-type prybar knife." You either make a knife or a prybar. Edge holding is important, and shame on anyone who says it's not. 1095 isn't bad, A2 isn't bad, but S30V has a great deal of edge retention while still being tough. I don't see it as a bad choice.

In a true "survival" type situation my knife would be the last thing I would use for prying. :thumbdn:

Youd don`t see the design of Strider knives as prybar knives?Are they optymized for cutting with rounded wide bellies and thin stock or do they have an Americanized tanto in 1/4" stock?The thickness itself is the sign of a prybar knife.
 
Youd don`t see the design of Strider knives as prybar knives?Are they optymized for cutting with rounded wide bellies and thin stock or do they have an Americanized tanto in 1/4" stock?

Sorry, I don't buy into tanto's, and I was specifically referring to their folders (because you were referencing a folder). No, I don't see them as prybar knives. I see the XM-18 as a prybar knife. They have a full flat grind, in a great steel, with exceptional ergos. I wouldn't be scared of prying with them, but I don't see them as prybars.
 
Now to comment on the edited post. :rolleyes:

If cheap is what you want, go get some fantasy knives made out of pot metal. This isn't about buying the most overpriced knife possible, it's about getting the best knife possible. I think a SMF is a better choice then that.

On that "Whisper Folder" you linked to, it looks unfinished. The handles look like they have sharp corners, and that grind is not something I really like. Looks almost like a shallow hollow grind.

$99? It's listed for $165, and "on sale" wouldn't be a 40% discount. If it's cheaper on the secondary market my guess is not a lot of people like them and are willing to take a good loss on the knife to move it.

Greco has a big sale around Xmas and you can get his FBs for 50$ and folders for a 100$.The blade is flat-ground German sawblade steel 8670, 3/16" thick.

Yes,I want cheap good knives,isn`t it obvious from my knife talk that I`m very far from those who buy fantasy knives (Strider knives being the biggest fantasy after a certain big company also peddling the Holy Graal of flexible,hard and stainless prybar knives)?Wouldn`t you like to buy your dear Strider knives for 50$ apiece?
 
Greco has a big sale around Xmas and you can get his FBs for 50$ and folders for a 100$.The blade is flat-ground German sawblade steel 8670, 3/16" thick.

Yes,I want cheap good knives,isn`t it obvious from my knife talk that I`m very far from those who buy fantasy knives (Strider knives being the biggest fantasy after a certain big company also peddling the Holy Graal of flexible,hard and stainless prybar knives)?Wouldn`t you like to buy your dear Strider knives for 50$ apiece?

I don't understand this "dear Strider knives" bit, or the "biggest fantasy...peddling...Holy Grail of flexible, hard and stainless." :confused:

First off, my SMF isn't "dear," it's beaten. Through anything I care to beat it through. If it breaks, I send it back and get a new one. Greco have the same thing?

Second, how is it a fantasy? The knives aren't flexible, why should they be? They aren't prybars, I have already addressed that.

The blade in the picture is not full flat ground. And if 8670 is anything like L6 (another common saw blade steel) then it's going to rust just from thinking about it.
 
I don't understand this "dear Strider knives" bit, or the "biggest fantasy...peddling...Holy Grail of flexible, hard and stainless." :confused:

First off, my SMF isn't "dear," it's beaten. Through anything I care to beat it through. If it breaks, I send it back and get a new one. Greco have the same thing?

Second, how is it a fantasy? The knives aren't flexible, why should they be? They aren't prybars, I have already addressed that.

The blade in the picture is not full flat ground. And if 8670 is anything like L6 (another common saw blade steel) then it's going to rust just from thinking about it.

All right then,would you care to confess how and why do you "beat" your knives?I`ve been a knifeknut since the age of 5 and I have never "beaten" a knife.Knives are primarily cutting instruments although some are optimized for killing people,those can be distinguished by long,narrow pointy blades,often double-edged and always made of flexible steel.What purpose are Strider folders and FBs made for?

PS.This is a "killing knife":
http://grecoknives.com/whisper_ct_with_black_powder_coat_finish.htm
 
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