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I spent $879.99, look what I got
- Thread starter mingyu
- Start date
Actually, I didn't mean to use any rhetoric, I was just simply stating the item list. However, "stating that item list" is ironical to me. When I was buying from the seller, I made paid item list to show him what should be sent, but still got items "overlooked" by him. Now when I'm sending these things back, I still need to make a list for him to tell I'm not going to overlook anything.
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 2009 12:13:59 -0400
Subject: Re: New Significantly Not as Described Dispute: Case #PP-807-792-417
From: joshua.burbank@gmail.com
To: wearefriends2008@live.cn
I have to ship orders I will respond this weekend thanks.
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 2009 12:55:34 -0400
Subject: Re: New Significantly Not as Described Dispute: Case #PP-807-792-417
From: joshua.burbank@gmail.com
To: wearefriends2008@live.cn
Again tho just to remind you of something. My business is not obligated to replace anything that I have sent to you that your country's mail employees decide to steal which they have obviously done twice now. No business is - it is your responsibility 100% after the items leave here.
THe fact that I was going to do it and gave you a deal the second time was something I do personally to feel better about the work I do. No other business would do that.
These were shipped in a fashion that I am familiar with that discourages theft. You seemed fine with the method and did not protest. When it was already shipped you suggested something different but alas it was already sent.
Now you want to be a tough guy and wage a paypal dispute. A dispute you will lose that will cost me my paypal account. You will lose that dispute trust me I have worked with paypal for 10 years - they cannot enforce that type of dispute because you have admitted delivery. Maybe if you had done "item not delivered" you could twist my arm a little more harder but I know I am not going to lose this one - so I just lost the will to send you more product. UNderstand? Yes you do I think. I don't choose to work with people who do this type of thing. It has certainly been done before. THere's a man in england who tried it... Same knife even. He never did end up getting his bottom handleset - it got lost to customs. Twice. I think I know how to take it apart too - separate the blade from the handle. That is where the other half of yours was going to go - to settle that. Though so much time has past I know he would be delighted. You should make it happen for yourself and him... Or not I don't care.
From: wearefriends2008@live.cn
To: joshua.burbank@gmail.com
Subject: RE: New Significantly Not as Described Dispute: Case #PP-807-792-417
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 2009 22:17:31 +0000
Glad to answer any of your doubts
1. You never provide anything to let me know if you really sent all the items.
2. Yes I once doubt the postman stole my package, however, now I don't think the postman stole my packages because I never lost any other packages, I only lost three packages which are ALL from you. I don't think a postman will be more interested in stealing a benchmade sheath and box (the first package that I didn't receive from you) than a package contains 30 boxes of cigarette. Also, the second package I didn't receive from you is a Scarab, based on your description, it should be very small and very unimportant at the appearance, how will it motivate the postman to steal it since he faces hundreds more attractive packages everyday? Third time, the upper half of the Scarab without the blade, six screws, a clip, a glass breaker. I think they can even be shipped in a common envelope, does anyone think it is more attractive than any other packages?
3. Today it is the first time you tell me it's 100% my responsibility after items leave your place. All I got known by you was "a lot of items you ever sent to the world and they were all arrived without any problem" and your word, promises that I would receive my packages for sure. Besides, you haven't proved you shipped fully, how can it now be my 100% responsibility then?
4. I did agree with your shipping method every time. The last time I was asking if you could use a service that provide tracking number and keep the package look low profile, you said you could use EMS which will cause investigation by Customs. So I agree to use the former shipping method. After I bought and received a Benchmade Infidel from a Bladeforums member, I knew that USPS priority mail with register was a safe way. I told you that because I wanted to introduce this good service to you and never asked you to use it on the Scarab. You knew it but now you are saying I turn back about the shipping method, or do you need me to provide your reply to recall?
5. I have said I don't care if I win or lose the dispute, I care if I do the right thing. I'm not a tough guy, what you think tough to you, is the truth. I'm an honest person, I opend the dispute under "item not as described" selection, I won't allow you violate my reputation by your own imagination. Besides, you owe me an apology for your last email.
6. You said you have worked with paypal for 10 years, I think you should know that once I closed a dispute I can not re-open it and paypal won't investigate your paypal account just because there's a dispute. So please answer me, why did you want me to quickly close my dispute so strongly?
7. What made you forget to mention there is people who didn't receive package else where? I though you were 100% delivery.
Here comes the most important and interesting part. According to the information you provided in your email, that English person who bought the same knife as I did and experienced this bad situation almost the same, BUT, the difference is, I receive the part With Blade, he received the part WithOut Blade.
8. I have stated my opinion, I would send what I received back to you and ask for refund, please confirm your address to receive the package. You can save your knife not to take it apart, though I'm sorry if my decision makes the person in England never receive his other part from you.
Subject: Re: New Significantly Not as Described Dispute: Case #PP-807-792-417
From: joshua.burbank@gmail.com
To: wearefriends2008@live.cn
I have to ship orders I will respond this weekend thanks.
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 2009 12:55:34 -0400
Subject: Re: New Significantly Not as Described Dispute: Case #PP-807-792-417
From: joshua.burbank@gmail.com
To: wearefriends2008@live.cn
Again tho just to remind you of something. My business is not obligated to replace anything that I have sent to you that your country's mail employees decide to steal which they have obviously done twice now. No business is - it is your responsibility 100% after the items leave here.
THe fact that I was going to do it and gave you a deal the second time was something I do personally to feel better about the work I do. No other business would do that.
These were shipped in a fashion that I am familiar with that discourages theft. You seemed fine with the method and did not protest. When it was already shipped you suggested something different but alas it was already sent.
Now you want to be a tough guy and wage a paypal dispute. A dispute you will lose that will cost me my paypal account. You will lose that dispute trust me I have worked with paypal for 10 years - they cannot enforce that type of dispute because you have admitted delivery. Maybe if you had done "item not delivered" you could twist my arm a little more harder but I know I am not going to lose this one - so I just lost the will to send you more product. UNderstand? Yes you do I think. I don't choose to work with people who do this type of thing. It has certainly been done before. THere's a man in england who tried it... Same knife even. He never did end up getting his bottom handleset - it got lost to customs. Twice. I think I know how to take it apart too - separate the blade from the handle. That is where the other half of yours was going to go - to settle that. Though so much time has past I know he would be delighted. You should make it happen for yourself and him... Or not I don't care.
From: wearefriends2008@live.cn
To: joshua.burbank@gmail.com
Subject: RE: New Significantly Not as Described Dispute: Case #PP-807-792-417
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 2009 22:17:31 +0000
Glad to answer any of your doubts
1. You never provide anything to let me know if you really sent all the items.
2. Yes I once doubt the postman stole my package, however, now I don't think the postman stole my packages because I never lost any other packages, I only lost three packages which are ALL from you. I don't think a postman will be more interested in stealing a benchmade sheath and box (the first package that I didn't receive from you) than a package contains 30 boxes of cigarette. Also, the second package I didn't receive from you is a Scarab, based on your description, it should be very small and very unimportant at the appearance, how will it motivate the postman to steal it since he faces hundreds more attractive packages everyday? Third time, the upper half of the Scarab without the blade, six screws, a clip, a glass breaker. I think they can even be shipped in a common envelope, does anyone think it is more attractive than any other packages?
3. Today it is the first time you tell me it's 100% my responsibility after items leave your place. All I got known by you was "a lot of items you ever sent to the world and they were all arrived without any problem" and your word, promises that I would receive my packages for sure. Besides, you haven't proved you shipped fully, how can it now be my 100% responsibility then?
4. I did agree with your shipping method every time. The last time I was asking if you could use a service that provide tracking number and keep the package look low profile, you said you could use EMS which will cause investigation by Customs. So I agree to use the former shipping method. After I bought and received a Benchmade Infidel from a Bladeforums member, I knew that USPS priority mail with register was a safe way. I told you that because I wanted to introduce this good service to you and never asked you to use it on the Scarab. You knew it but now you are saying I turn back about the shipping method, or do you need me to provide your reply to recall?
5. I have said I don't care if I win or lose the dispute, I care if I do the right thing. I'm not a tough guy, what you think tough to you, is the truth. I'm an honest person, I opend the dispute under "item not as described" selection, I won't allow you violate my reputation by your own imagination. Besides, you owe me an apology for your last email.
6. You said you have worked with paypal for 10 years, I think you should know that once I closed a dispute I can not re-open it and paypal won't investigate your paypal account just because there's a dispute. So please answer me, why did you want me to quickly close my dispute so strongly?
7. What made you forget to mention there is people who didn't receive package else where? I though you were 100% delivery.
Here comes the most important and interesting part. According to the information you provided in your email, that English person who bought the same knife as I did and experienced this bad situation almost the same, BUT, the difference is, I receive the part With Blade, he received the part WithOut Blade.
8. I have stated my opinion, I would send what I received back to you and ask for refund, please confirm your address to receive the package. You can save your knife not to take it apart, though I'm sorry if my decision makes the person in England never receive his other part from you.
The messages below are through paypal resolution center.
From Seller: Edge Marketing on 16-10-2009 19:04 GMT+02:00
Just because it's friday - that can happen here on a friday.
From Seller: Edge Marketing on 16-10-2009 19:03 GMT+02:00
The complete item was sent and this was never disputed by the client. I have offered to replace the part of the item that the client feels is missing ($20 dollars in parts) however the client is at a hostile stance and refuses to cancel the dispute. We might send it anyhow.
From Buyer: Mingyu Guo on 16-10-2009 22:26 GMT+02:00
First of all, I'm glad that you finally decide to talk to me through Paypal resolution center not through normal email.
Secondly, I think I have to state the truth since you, as the seller, didn't say it.
1. I know the item was sent BUT I do not know if it was sent completely. I received half of the item, which can not work without the other half, makes the $400 item a totally waste.
2. You let me wait about a month for the other half. Until there's only five days before I lose the right to open a dispute. At that very moment, we both know I can not receive your make up item within 5 days. I think it's reasonable to open the dispute to allow me more time under Paypal's protection, which seems a correct decision now.
3. I kept sending you email asking when you will send me the other half of the item, I didn't get any reply on that. But as soon as I opend the dispute, you immediately sent me a reply saying you were going to send it.
4. You refused to send me the other half item because I didn't agree to close the dispute, which I have the right to let it open until I receive the correct item. It has been a week since I opend the dispute, not until today you said the words "we might send it".
5. Since you said the other half of the item which I didn't receive is so cheap, $20 in parts (really? I'm happy to hear that), I would like to order 4 times more of that half, I will pay you another $80 for those.
6. Take a look at your last email to me, you used inappropriate words and not good manner to treat me. Since you chosed not to be a gentleman and I kept being gentle, at this very point of view, I am sure at a "hostile stance"(opposite stance).
From Buyer: Mingyu Guo on 16-10-2009 22:29 GMT+02:00
I'm happy to hear that you still haven't sent the other half to me, because I have already gave you enough time to do that but you didn't. I will send what I received back to you and ask for refund.
Again, please confirm your address to receive the package.
From Seller: Edge Marketing on 16-10-2009 19:04 GMT+02:00
Just because it's friday - that can happen here on a friday.
From Seller: Edge Marketing on 16-10-2009 19:03 GMT+02:00
The complete item was sent and this was never disputed by the client. I have offered to replace the part of the item that the client feels is missing ($20 dollars in parts) however the client is at a hostile stance and refuses to cancel the dispute. We might send it anyhow.
From Buyer: Mingyu Guo on 16-10-2009 22:26 GMT+02:00
First of all, I'm glad that you finally decide to talk to me through Paypal resolution center not through normal email.
Secondly, I think I have to state the truth since you, as the seller, didn't say it.
1. I know the item was sent BUT I do not know if it was sent completely. I received half of the item, which can not work without the other half, makes the $400 item a totally waste.
2. You let me wait about a month for the other half. Until there's only five days before I lose the right to open a dispute. At that very moment, we both know I can not receive your make up item within 5 days. I think it's reasonable to open the dispute to allow me more time under Paypal's protection, which seems a correct decision now.
3. I kept sending you email asking when you will send me the other half of the item, I didn't get any reply on that. But as soon as I opend the dispute, you immediately sent me a reply saying you were going to send it.
4. You refused to send me the other half item because I didn't agree to close the dispute, which I have the right to let it open until I receive the correct item. It has been a week since I opend the dispute, not until today you said the words "we might send it".
5. Since you said the other half of the item which I didn't receive is so cheap, $20 in parts (really? I'm happy to hear that), I would like to order 4 times more of that half, I will pay you another $80 for those.
6. Take a look at your last email to me, you used inappropriate words and not good manner to treat me. Since you chosed not to be a gentleman and I kept being gentle, at this very point of view, I am sure at a "hostile stance"(opposite stance).
From Buyer: Mingyu Guo on 16-10-2009 22:29 GMT+02:00
I'm happy to hear that you still haven't sent the other half to me, because I have already gave you enough time to do that but you didn't. I will send what I received back to you and ask for refund.
Again, please confirm your address to receive the package.
- Joined
- Dec 12, 2001
- Messages
- 939
upto a few days ago I was actually thinking about getting something from PVK since every thread that had a problem with him was eventually fixed. After seeing the response from PVK though, I would not patronize that store no matter what might be in stock.
dericdesmond
Gold Member
- Joined
- Sep 10, 2007
- Messages
- 15,537
mingyu, I thought you said your English was poor? I DISAGREE!
You did a helluva job with your 8 points!!!!! Not that it matters, the seller is obviously brain dead.
Yo wolfman, was up with this dude?
You did a helluva job with your 8 points!!!!! Not that it matters, the seller is obviously brain dead.
Yo wolfman, was up with this dude?
This is what I was wondering.
But it seems that in every one of these threads about him, someone is quick to jump to his defence with that "Well, I got mine from him so he's OK with me no matter how many others he rips off" response.
That attitude is what keeps POS like Josh Burbank (PVK Knives), Botach, et al in business and facilitates their continued thievery.
Last edited:
Wow,
I am glad that I can buy any knife I need in USA. I am also glad that I have and trust a few great dealers to satisfy my knife wants. Mingyu, you are a stand up guy! I am glad you got resolution. Good luck in the future getting the knives you want.
I am glad that I can buy any knife I need in USA. I am also glad that I have and trust a few great dealers to satisfy my knife wants. Mingyu, you are a stand up guy! I am glad you got resolution. Good luck in the future getting the knives you want.
Well, they are not illegal everywhere around the world.
Some countries have a total ban on autos, in other countries you can buy them but not carry them...
I do not think PP will care about foreign laws, as long as U.S. laws are respected. I think it is legal for an American dealer to ship autos abroad, please correct me if I am wrong.
I meant that it was ironic that he would send you a little item saying "we appreciate your business," when apparently he does not.
"Irony: A statement that, when taken in context, may actually mean the opposite of what is written literally; the use of words expressing something other than their literal intention, notably as a form of humor."
I wish you the best or luck with your dispute.
- Joined
- Feb 22, 2009
- Messages
- 637
Wow, I just read this entire thread and really can't believe this Josh guy is serious. He will most certainly never be getting any of my business. I hope you win the dispute and never have to communicate with that piece of trash ever again.
Good luck and keep the pressure on him!
Good luck and keep the pressure on him!
- Joined
- Apr 17, 2009
- Messages
- 5,168
I've been watching this since day one and how Josh is treating this guy is awful. I have no respect for him now.
This would be hilarious if it were not real. Josh Burbank is a complete lowlife. Over $800 spent, not a single full knife sent, and now, when you try to get either your money's worth (well, half of it at least) or your money back, he says you're trying to screw him? The package is 100% your responsibility after he sends it? He's trying to, and not with much subtlety, bully you into simply relinquishing your money to him in the hopes that he actually sends you something of value. He said it himself: He has over 100 in stock, and he can afford to replace one or two. Instead, he tries to stiff-arm his customer into getting conned even worse. He's absolutely not getting any business from me, and hopefully he doesn't get business from anyone on these forums, either. As a matter of fact, I hope he goes out of business.
From Buyer: Mingyu Guo on 17-10-2009 20:50 GMT+02:00
I will send things back to you to your shipping address:
Pioneer Valley Knife&Tool
6 University Drive#249
Amherst,MA 01004-6000
There's still no agreement on this problem. I sent the message two days ago to the seller, but I don't get his reply. I don't know if I can sent the things back to him without his agreement? What can I do if I sent the things back but he refuses to sign to receive or doesn't agree to give me refund?
Thanks to those nice people who kept watching this and giving me advices!
Thanks to everyone for your kind words!
I will send things back to you to your shipping address:
Pioneer Valley Knife&Tool
6 University Drive#249
Amherst,MA 01004-6000
There's still no agreement on this problem. I sent the message two days ago to the seller, but I don't get his reply. I don't know if I can sent the things back to him without his agreement? What can I do if I sent the things back but he refuses to sign to receive or doesn't agree to give me refund?
Thanks to those nice people who kept watching this and giving me advices!
Thanks to everyone for your kind words!
IMO you should get the $400 in your PP claim back for the first knife and just keep what you have.
It's pretty clear the guy is going to stall about and do what ever he can to just spite you here.
(I know a collector of MTs over here who I know has done a destrucion test on a Scarab.
I can't guarantee anything but I can ask him if he still has any of the bits for it.
:thumbupEarlier on this page, the seller says he will win the paypal dispute because you admitted receiving the item and that you were disputing the description of the item. And yet he does acknowledge sending the item in two packages. Will the fact that you did not receive both packges go in your favor when this goes from dispute to claim? Or can you file a separate action under item not received as well?
I sure hope some good comes your way, mingyu.
Joe
I sure hope some good comes your way, mingyu.
Joe